The Other Patrick sent us a link this week, and it’s right in line with some things we talked about a while back in comments: Laura Penny wants to bring the word “cunt” into the light of day. Her basic argument – that it represents female sexuality as a powerful and possibly even threatening element – is intriguing and worth considering. The problem is that the example she chooses of a usage about which people got overly uptight is an incident in which one man called another man a “cunt.”
That usage is never going to be okay. Why?
There are gulfs and chasms and abysses of difference between referring to a part of female anatomy as a cunt and calling an entire person a “cunt.” She thinks because “prick” is a put-down, too, it’s all the same – but she’s mistaken. Being male has never been considered a bad thing to be. Being female has been, and continues to be. Calling a man a prick says he’s a particular kind of man that the speaker doesn’t like. Calling someone a cunt says the person is a woman, period, and any kind of woman is an objectionable thing to be. Additionally, men often call each other “pricks” in a teasing or even affectionate way, whereas “cunt” is always and exclusively an insult of epic proportions [ETA: in the U.S., anyway].
Any term which relies on the agreed precept that a whole demographic of people are automatically worthless just can’t represent egalitarian values.
I do agree that the word works just fine in its anatomical usage. As Penny argues, it possibly the least offensive slang term available for that collection of body parts, and actually beats the proper words because we don’t have a single word for the entire part as a woman experiences it – we only have a term for how men experience it through sex:
the medical descriptor “vagina” refers only to a part of the organ, as if women’s sexuality were nothing more than a wet hole, or “sheath” in the Latin.
Additionally, Penny talks a lot about how powerful female sexuality is, and that argument has never made sense to me. Sexuality shouldn’t be powerful; the power we invest in male sexuality is the whole reason it’s gotten conflated with conquering and controlling. We need to be stripping the power from male sexuality, and then when nobody’s sexuality is a particularly powerful thing, we can put sex in its proper perspective as a non-threatening part of being human.
{ 52 comments… read them below or add one }
Next Comments →
I’ve read claims by UK natives that the usage of “cunt” as an insult in Britain is not as serious an insult when applied to men (but that it’s still very rude to apply to women). More like “twat” in my American idiom, which is a mild insult rather than an insult of epic proportions.
I agree that it’s a very strong insult in American, but I am not sure about “always and exclusively” unless that’s “always and exclusively in the US”.
Laura(Quote) (Reply)
My brother once used that word and even explained/excused it away to me that there was no slang for male genitalia that was as effective in expressing how disgusting he thought something was (it was aimed at politicians, male politicians).
And he had NO idea why I was so upset with him, despite me explaining it to him in small words.
Certainly asshole is a much more disgusting word, if we’re going to refer to the body parts in question as a basis for the insult.
sbg(Quote) (Reply)
True. I’ll edit the post to reflect that – thanks.
Jennifer Kesler(Quote) (Reply)
Does that mean he thinks a vagina is way, way more disgusting than a penis? And he’s straight? That’s… interesting.
Jennifer Kesler(Quote) (Reply)
My brother, while I love him dearly, suffers from Nice Guy Syndrome. The reason he can’t get a girlfriend or laid is because women can’t see how nice he is, so they are all stupid, etc.
Erm. I haven’t even thought about how to address that troubling attitude of his, or point out that he is not, in fact, very nice if that is the opinion he has on women and women pick up on that.
Or maybe he is gay. I dunno. I was raised uber Roman Catholic, so it’s not like anyone in the family is rushing to come out. Statistically, there’s a good chance we’re not all hetero.
sbg(Quote) (Reply)
I just don’t like the word. It’s an abrupt, ugly little sound. Can’t we have a pretty sounding word to describe that part of the body? If we have to use a slang term, can’t we use hoo-ha or nonny or even pussy instead? Cunt is just an harsh sound, like grunt.
GardenGoblin(Quote) (Reply)
I agree, although I’m suspicious of my reasons for wanting a pretty word. FWIW, my understanding of the origin of the word is from old Saxon and that was kind of the sound of the language – cock comes from it too.
Firebird(Quote) (Reply)
My personal favourite term for female sexual organs is ‘Peza’ (it comes from the Latvian, and there is a mark over the ‘z’ but I don’t know how to create one.) I like this word because when spoken it sounds like “pleasure” and so, to me, it references my experience of those parts of my anatomy.
Bakka(Quote) (Reply)
“twat” is also a slang for female genitals here in the UK.
I.A. Scott(Quote) (Reply)
Asshole is also MUCH more gender egalitarian, since we all have one.
Casey(Quote) (Reply)
Bakka, how would you pronounce that? Pez-ya?
Gategrrl(Quote) (Reply)
Ooh, good one. Let’s use that one. Since all we feminists have a hive mind, it should be part of the collective stream of consciousness within the week, right?
GardenGoblin(Quote) (Reply)
Yeah, it’s a matter of preference, because ‘pussy’ gives me the creeps, so sibilant it feels sleazy to me, while ‘cunt’ seems firm and casual to me, just like ‘cock’ (though I’ve seen people who loathe that word, too). Wish there were more slang choices overall, though.
DM(Quote) (Reply)
Absolutely agree about stripping the idea of power from sexuality. Female sexuality is already frequently seen as the wild, frightening bogeyman waiting to ruin family and happiness and civilization as we know it, which is why so many cultures have ignored or tried to stunt it, and sexists love to wail about evil women and their genital mind control. Why buy into that? Sexual confidence in self and body shouldn’t imply manipulation over other bodies.
DM(Quote) (Reply)
Maybe it’s more that we should rethink the way we think about the power of sexuality as opposed to disregarding it. My sexuality is a very powerful force… over me.
Attackfish(Quote) (Reply)
Yeah, pussy always weirded/squicked me out, and as much as I love the word cunt just because I find the sound to be funny/oddly satisfying to say (terse, abrupt and ugly with a hard-c sounds amuse me greatly for some reason), there needs to be maybe a greater spectrum of genitalia-related slang terms? IDK…
Semi-OT, but this also reminds me how as a little kid I called vaginas “twinkie” and penises “pee-pee hose”…ah, things were so simple then.
Casey(Quote) (Reply)
Right, sexuality only has power over us (or not). I do know what DM is saying though, refuting those tired “pussy power” arguments. I think whenever anyone mentions women’s “powerful sexuality” in the general media, they mean that pussy power that renders men helpless. Ha. It’s framed as power over men when it’s anything BUT. It’s the biggest lie women are fed in this third age IMO.
As far as cunt goes, I used to use it a lot before becoming feminist minded, but not so much nowadays. Women are so reduced to their sex always that I feel like I am doing that when I say cunt.
JT(Quote) (Reply)
Pussy Power requires so much doublethink to believe that it would be laughable if so many people of assorted sexes and genders didn’t believe in it and use it as an excuse not to change things/subjugate women.
Attackfish(Quote) (Reply)
I’m all for reclaiming the word, (real reclaiming, not the weird shit Laura Penny wants) but I want to make it clear to the world, I have a cunt. I like my cunt. I amnot a cunt, and that person you hate so much can only dream of being as nice as my cunt, so stop insulting it by comparing them.
http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=3011 like this, without the pussy power bit. Respect the poon.
Attackfish(Quote) (Reply)
I was definitely talking about the larger social context in which we treat sex like it’s this force that takes over the minds of grown adults and forces them to rape, cheat and do various unwise or harmful other things. Or a force that forces men to subjugate women, and women to like it. I’m tired of people using sex as an excuse for being assholes, and of society constructing loads of myths to make those excuses seem plausible – for men, mostly.
Jennifer Kesler(Quote) (Reply)
Full agreement. Of course, I’m biased because I am pretty much asexual — but in my mind, this obsession with sex that our culture (and not just ours) has just strikes me as severely unhealthy in so many ways.
As for the c-word, the linked article utterly baffles me. How can a “cunt” be both a positive, powerful, pleasurable thing — and the perfect word to express one’s utter contempt and displeasure? You simply can’t have it both ways. And to use it as the worst imaginable insult perpetuates the deeply entrenched hatred of women in general, and female genitalia and female sexuality in particular. Sadly, the author apparently did not reply to several comments making this point. The very first step to “reclaiming” the c-word or other terms for women or our anatomy would be to stop using them in a hateful context.
Sexual words as insults are a pet peeve of mine in general because they are so very revealing of nasty underlying attitudes. I’ve been a feminist since my mid-teens (when discovering it saved me from my hatred of anything female born from my inability and unwillingness to identify with what society told me I should be and want) and yet to my shame I have to admit that I STILL use “fuck off” or “screw this” when I’m really pissed off. I instantly kick myself for it, hard, but I haven’t been able to stop altogether. Maybe it’s because to me sexuality *is* a negative thing that I want nothing to do with — but even so, I also don’t want to be part of the crowd that keeps the connection of hatred and violence with sex alive and kicking.
Korva(Quote) (Reply)
It is a rather gutteral word. Then again, so is fuck, and I don’t have any problem with that one. Why the difference? Probably because fuck is a much more versatile word; it can be used as pretty much any part of speech. Cunt, on the other hand, is only ever a noun with some pretty specific connotations.
Personally, I’ve always been partial to the British “quim”. As far as I can tell it doesn’t have any other meaning and isn’t used as an insult. Plus, “nasal” M-sounds are easier to transition into sounds of pleasure than “plosive” T-sounds. (Yay, linguistics!)
Robin(Quote) (Reply)
See, for my part, I’d rather have the harsh sound. I’m a harsh girl, and hoo-ha/pussy/nonny all sound way too cute to me. (Also: “vajayjay”. Hate that one: what am I, six?) But then, as DM says, it’s a matter of preference. I can fuck until the cows come home, but I squirm just having to type “make love”. Ew.
Isabel C.(Quote) (Reply)
I like the hard sound too, cunts, cocks, and fuck, all have lovely strong aspirations. I like aspirations, makes the words easy to say when you’re out of breath.
Attackfish(Quote) (Reply)
Ugh, I HATE the phrase “make love.” I mean, it makes no sense to me either. What is the love you’re making? Is it the various fluids? The potential fetus? The hormones and chemicals being released that can foster infatuation? (Though the kind of hormones released during cuddling and whatnot are the ones which promote monogamy, loyalty, and the ability to stay together…in general, of course, and not considering outside influences such as the actual people and their individual personalities. I mean, the sex can be important in romantic relationships, but if we’re calling it the thing which “makes love,” that’s just one part of it…and then it makes it sound like the MOST important part and that’s kind of silly to me.) But I digress.
I’m a harsh sound liker as well–I tend to like all the words my friends all hate, though, like nipple and moist. The only thing I don’t like about the word cunt and the idea of “taking it back” is the implication that by accepting the word cunt into common usage as any form of insult just continues the implication that any part of every woman is something to be ashamed of and hurt by. So pretty much just like what everyone’s said. As just a word to describe a part of my anatomy? Yeah, sure. But anyone using it better be careful about their context (around me anyway) because I definitely have a righteous temper!
The Other Anne(Quote) (Reply)
“Cunt, on the other hand, is only ever a noun with some pretty specific connotations.”
Very true. Actually because of that, when I heard somebody call a bowl of pea soup they didn’t like “CUNTING PEA SOUP!” I kinda squirted water out of my nose with laughter. OTL
Casey(Quote) (Reply)
What I found much more interesting than the Laurie Penny piece which was a bit of a puff piece IMO was the response from the guy who she called a ‘cunt’ publicly. Definitely a bit of a privileged whine about how her being a journalist gives her power and privilege over him, a white male. He, in a blog he contributes to, calls himself a feminist and uses this identification to justify the use of well-trodden sexist remarks (remarks which prompted Penny’s use of ‘cunt’) and basically tells Penny to ‘chill out, bitch, it’s just a joke’. here’s the link: http://thethirdestate.net/2011/01/on-being-called-a-cunt-by-laurie-penny/
In this light, Penny’s piece looks apologetic and contrived, but at least she doesn’t look petty and ennnooormously pretentious.
p.s. I’ve met this guy and while I wouldn’t call him a cunt I’d definitely call him a fucking douchebag.
p.p.s. Read the exciting comments, especially the great feminist ones from some guy called Richard Seymour
Jen(Quote) (Reply)
Um…just as a heads-up, when you say “exciting feminist comments” do you mean there’s a bunch of sexist douchebags whinging on there? It’s difficult to tell sarcasm on the internetz.
Casey(Quote) (Reply)
I was going to say that I’d heard it as a gerund in The Exorcist.
And now pea soup. Heh.
Isabel C.(Quote) (Reply)
Exactly.
Which, I guess, is why “fuck” at least is such a good angry word too.
Isabel C.(Quote) (Reply)
Next Comments →