Gamer culture in a coffee shop

Why is the onus on the ignored woman to do something? If that was me (and it has been in, less heinous ways) I just ignore the whole thing and get on with my day. This is not to say that she should – but that the whole idea of “what should she do?” is just as much a fantasy as “she should be violent!” The whole situation is about making her powerless, and the idea that it’s also her responsibility to fix it is kind of offensive.

She should do whatever she feels like to feel better, including “nothing”. I certainly wouldn’t blame the other woman, either, as she’s almost certainly, as a woman, been trained not to make a fuss, not to insult a man, not to stand up for herself. Same for the barista, but same problems there, plus being in a service job. It would be nice if one of them did act, but there’s only one person in this scenario who is at fault: the guy who started it.

Argh, the Puritans. I have ridiculously long rants regarding them, but I’ll just sum it up as this: They were a culture that, judging from their own behavior, viewed arrogance as the supreme virtue. Had Jesus come among them, they would have hanged him.

My apologies. I did not like being called on his side because of a hobby, and let my anger get the better of me. I brought up events that were completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. Thanks for stopping the flame war.

I believe that a man punishing a woman for being less attractive is horrible. Women can’t help the way they look, just like men can’t help the way they look. Women in the media are portrayed as looking gorgeous all the time, so any woman that is less attractive than an airbrushed model is put down or not put in as high regards as the attractive women we see every day all over billboards and magazines, movies and commercials. No person should be punished or put down for the way they look, and no one should be overly praised and put above anyone else for the way they look. Somehow looks appear to have been put in front of everything when judging a person, and that’s pathetic.

Thank you! I don’t think blaming the normatively pretty woman exclusively is the answer to this situation, but how is it acceptable, after being refused when asking someone to cut in front of them in a line, to then TAKE THAT PLACE ANYWAY when the person IN FRONT of them PUSHES THEM AWAY and offers you THEIR SPOT? The guy had no right to put his hands on the original poster, or offer her spot in line, but the “prettier” woman had no right to take it, and clearly felt entitled to get whatever she wanted due to what was obviously privileged treatment. They’re BOTH assholes. With astoundingly poor home training, I’d warrant. Who the hell pushes people, and doesn’t expect a fight? Seriously, keep your hands to yourfuckingself.

Then again, as another customer or as a barista I’d've said something, even if it was just, “Are you going to let him do that?” or “Oh, you must be giving up YOUR spot in line, then,” both of which I consider very passive responses. That’s how I was raised, I guess. If I was the woman being pushed, I would definitely be screaming, cussing, and getting the barista’s attention, and possibly threatening dickless with either legal or physical action. Before reading this, I’d've been in a state of obviously disgusted and judgmental disbelief if I were the “pretty” girl (not as much shock since I’ve read this were it to happen now, but I give a mean condescending side-eye). I’m rude like that, though, in the not looking to take shit off strangers kind of way, and lousy at hiding my true ~feelings~ on stuff, to boot.

In a more professional note than my earlier careless rant: If someone asks to cut in line because their boyfriend is waiting, I do not explain why I need the spot more than them; I simply say nope. Why not? None of your business. I do not owe them sympathy any more than anyone else in line. I would not have shown the girl nearly the politeness the original poster did, and my coldness might have saved me being walked all over. To some jerks sympathy = doormat.

But isn’t it your duty as a feminist to spoon-feed information to people until they finally get it all?

If they were to actually read the whole thing themselves, you might have time to get things done, and that wouldn’t do at all.

The problem with flirting and making nice as survival behavior is that it doesn’t seem to be particularly effective at removing the threat. It doesn’t even allow you to remove yourself from the situation, because you need to stay close enough to the creep to do it.

If you operate on that instinct and don’t put your foot down at some point, the only way the situation will ever get better is if the creep gives up. Which might work if he’s some jerk at a coffee shop who you’re never going to see again, but definitely doesn’t work in the case of abusive boyfriends, who use this very instinct to trap the women who love them.

It just doesn’t seem particularly useful in situations where your life probably isn’t hanging in the balance, especially if you want to have any hope for change.

My husband is a Reddit reader and we talked about this story when it first hit Reddit – interesting to see the feminist take on it. I think one of the reasons later comments were so angry about the hot girl is there’s really nothing to debate about the guy’s actions. They were reprehensible. Not much to debate there – but there’s much more to discuss about the gorgeous woman, because she had the opportunity to speak or act in defense of this woman (and to not act so entitled in the first place).

I think the guy’s treatment of the subjectively less-attractive woman came from both the desire to punish her for existing and to try and get the hottie’s attention – hopeless though it might be to attempt. I’ve seen the punishing behavior from men before – and take some comfort in the fact that, honestly? It’s not like they’re ever going to have a happy, satisfying relationship with a woman. As such tremendous douches who disrespect women, they’re doomed to miss out on the loving relationships that the rest of us get to have.