Every time I come across Never Been Kissed on TV, I have this compulsion to watch it. I know it’s a terrible movie full of bad messages and terrible stereotypes. The ugly duckling turns into a swan story. The smart people are nerds and socially shunned but are ultimately the victors trope. The one true love schmaltz. The unbearable whiteness of being. It’s awful. It’s a terrible movie. In case you missed it, let me throw in one more terrible.
And I love, love, love it.
THL readers, I need some reassurances that I’m not the only one with this kind of dirty secret*. Do you have any movies or shows** that break your “ism” rules, but you love them anyway? Do you attempt to justify the love by finding excuses, or do you enjoy your crapfest, no holds barred?
*you already know my biggest dirty secret: Supernatural. 
ETA: **or any media, really. Confession: I did not mean to hit publish on this post. LOL.
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Shaun the Sheep is a *series*???? How did I not know this? Is it produced by the same folks who gave us “Chicken Run”? Hey-now that’s a movie no one here has ever reviewed (or have we, & I’ve forgotten)
Gategrrl(Quote) (Reply)
Gategrrl,
Yeah, it’s a series. Shaun was created by Nick Parks (Wallace and Gromit), who, along with the other animators at Aardman, did Chicken Run for, um, whoever did that movie. Shaun first appears in W&G, and then someone else developed the series and I can’t really find Nick Parks saying anything about it other than that he never dreamed Shaun would take off like it did and end up outselling W&G.
I love both series.
And I don’t think we reviewed chicken run. I never saw it. Mel Gibson made my skin crawl long before we all found out what an asshole he was.
Jennifer Kesler(Quote) (Reply)
For guilty pleasures, I’ll go with “Once Upon a Time in the West”, which is sort of in an odd company among the other films mentioned here.
The film is highly regarded by critics and film aficionados, considered a classic within its genre, and a defining moment in the history of westerns and in the legacy of its director, Sergio Leone. The plot is a lot more complex than your average western, with twists and turns like something out of a noir thriller. Henry Fonda is amazingly evil, Charles Bronson amazingly enigmatic, and Ennio Morricone’s music is just amazing.
And then the film is also incredibly sexist. The central theme of the film is an eulogy for the by-gone era of Real Men(tm), as the railroads herald a new era of technology and cowards and women. The nominal female protagonist is a prostitute, constantly pushed around by guys both good and bad, and is – in one especially creepy scene, filmed as if it was an intimate, romantic moment – raped by the antagonist. Any attempt to excuse the portrayal of women by the director as unintended or accidental is betrayed both by his later film “Once Upon A Time In America” (widely recognized as a misogynistic tour-de-force), as well as the DVD commentary for “West”, in which it is revealed that the misogyny was toned down by the studio against Leone’s wishes.
It is quite defenseless… and yet I adore the film. Is there such a thing as a good film full of bad messages and terrible stereotypes?
Søren Løvborg(Quote) (Reply)
“Good” is such a relative term. I’m not sure you can declare a work of art “good” overall, you need to define your metric. You can say that a movie is “good” on spectra of plot, camerawork and soundtrack even if it’s terrible on spectra of bigotry and characterization. Nazi propaganda films were apparently very good movies, masterpieces of art that got the blood pumping and the heartstrings stirring for king and country (as it were). Yet most people would agree that the content and the purpose of the films were despicable.
Same thing with jokes. There was a fascinating comment thread over at Jezebel a few months ago, with some commenters arguing that laughing at a rape joke makes one a rape apologist and others arguing that a joke can have good jokey elements, timing and structure and subversion of expectations, that makes one laugh reflexively even if the message is disagreeable.
Same thing with any art form. Hieronymus Bosch did wonderful paintings, with great… painty bits. He introduced a new style that was radically different from the traditional. Yet the content of his paintings is, in my unprofessional opinion, fucked up. Seriously, the guy was obsessed with Hell and depicting the horrors of Hell in the most graphic way possible.
Sylvia Sybil(Quote) (Reply)
Søren Løvborg,
I too love Once Upon a Time in the West. That train station sequence is just…well, I love it. Also I love the original FMA series opening that gives it a nod. And the music. Oh the music, so so much.
I feel the same towards many many Terrence Malick films. They are so problematic on so many levels but so gorgeous and reverent as well. Thin Red Line, New World and Tree Of Life are breathtakingly gorgeous to me but at the same time I want to yell at them as I watch them. So it’s a good thing they take away my breath or I would.
The Other Anne(Quote) (Reply)
I’m coming in on Independence Day and Disney for movies, and Howard and Lovecraft for writers. King’s a more mixed bag, but I do like his earlier works despite their issues.
One of my major ones is Gone With the Wind. Gah. It’s horrific on almost all social justice levels–maybe it gets points for “behavioral standards for women sucked in the 1860s”, but that’s about it–but it’s excessively readable. And the life-during-wartime thing gets me every time.
Isabel C.(Quote) (Reply)
Dusk til Dawn.
One scene in particular should show why it’s so damn problematic. Stripper in a mexican biker bar/stripclub, covered in a python, comes out and does her little dance in a way that commands the room’s attention, not in heels but in bare feet. The director of the film, as one of the cast members and on camera, drinks alcohol that was dribbled down her leg and over her feet, sucking it off her toes. One dosen’t have to be paying attention to know that Quentin Tarantino is in love with women’s feet. So him using the camera and the power of being a director to do that is… EYUGH. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.
Yet, I love the movie. The vampire slaying is over the top, the priest’s crisis of faith is believeable (if a bit too easily resolved) and it has Cheech of Cheech and Chong in two different roles, one of them as a barker who’s main job seems to be figuring out how many ways to work the word Titties into a sentance. The band where the musical instruments made of dismembered corpses make me laugh every time. The movie is SO over the top it’s easy to forgive what happens in the movie. What the director used the movie to do is a different story.
Kalica(Quote) (Reply)
Oh, this isn’t a movie (I STILL HAVE TO THINK UP MOVIES), but in regards to more TV shows that are guilty pleasures, I could just turn my brain off and watch “The Bad Girls Club” in giant all-day marathons… *3*
Casey(Quote) (Reply)
Patrick McGraw,
What are you talking about? The Craft is awesome! (See what I mean about no guilt?) It totally has some good points beyond Robin Tunney’s uniform.
1) Presents a non-judgmental view of pagan faith
2) Passes the Bechdel test
3) Shows real issues teen girls face (sexual assault, double standards, racism, classism, suicide, peer pressure)
See? You just need to overlook the guilt and consider it a fun movie about teen female friendship. With magic powers. Where they discover their identities in the face of misogyny, puritanical double standards, racist twits, rapists, unrealistic body image expectations and dead parents. With magic.
draconismoi(Quote) (Reply)
draconismoi,
That’s true, and one of the things I liked about it was that the casts’ problems were all real problems until the “magic magic magic” ending.
I also love that Sarah’s reasons for her suicide attempt aren’t gone into, avoiding any sort of “single issue psychology” with her. And that she recognizes, and articulates, that people who turn on you as soon as you disagree with them are not your friends.
And Nancy is a good antagonist with a clearly-expressed character arc, and her psychological issues do NOT come out of nowhere the way they do for some characters.
My real issues are with how it presents the other leads. Bonnie and Rochelle were very flat. Bonnie’s character arc is entirely bound up in her disfigurement, and Rochelle’s problems being racist twits makes her race her defining feature… funny how the white girls have defining features NOT related to their race.
Patrick McGraw(Quote) (Reply)
I thought of another one for me – a tv show, but still: Blake’s 7. It has a number of moments that make me think of what people criticize about the Gor books, but it’s just such an enticing blend of hilariously super-cheesy and deeply nihilistic that I manage to giggle at the ridiculousness and keep watching.
Jennifer Kesler(Quote) (Reply)
The ABC Family shows Make It Or Break It and Pretty Little Liars are definitely on my list. I’m really conflicted about MIOBI, because last season they had a main character give up her dreams of Olympic gold rather than terminate an unwanted pregnancy, but then they had another character come out to his best friend as bisexual in a pretty positive way.
Patrick McGraw:
Oh my god yes, The Craft! Not so much for the Robin Tunney, but for the mid-90s over-sexualized pseudo-girlpower, the half-naked Skeet Ulrich, the comedy gold of Breckin Meyer, and the soundtrack.
Also from that era, I can’t help but watch The Skulls over and over. Pretty people succumbing to temptation and uncovering secrets gets me every time. Plus, I may have a… slight weakness for Joshua Jackson. (And again with the rockin’ soundtrack.)
I’m sure there are many more, but I can’t think of them at the moment.
Robin(Quote) (Reply)
IMHO, everyone should.
sbg(Quote) (Reply)
Another guilty pleasure of mine: monster movies.
Of course, I ALWAYS root for the monster. What can I say, I like cryptids and other “monstrous” animals. Like the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park: adore. Or the giant squids in The Beast (I LOOOVE squids), and the super-smart sharks in Deep Blue Sea are AWESOME, as well as Bruce in JAWS. And the giant croc in Lake Placid–and I loooove that it was a little old granny who loved it. And the anaconda in Anaconda. And Godzilla. And the poor little baby monster in Cloverfield!
What I DON’T like about monster movies: that every time humans win. I mean, I like humans (sort of, but only because I’m biased in that I am one), but I’d like to see some other animals win some of the time–and last scene comebacks do not count. Also Piranha was awful. I love piranhas and they just have a crap reputation. Same with sharks, which is a big beef I have with Jaws (and even Benchley regrets that one–as he should). But Piranha…ugh. That movie DELIGHTED in women being killed. It delighted in everyone being killed, of course, but there seemed to be special “satisfaction” onscreen whenever the victim was female.
But, yeah, I pretty much love going to see any alien/monster/creature feature even though I typically rip them to shreds afterwards.
Though I also love animal buddy movies like Free Willy and Flipper (and I’m sure I’ll adore Dolphin Tail). But I really REALLY want a human and shark buddy movie. I think I would die of happiness if someone made one of those.
The Other Anne(Quote) (Reply)
Oh my goodness, I just thought of a big one for me. Coupling. It is possibly the cleverest comedy series I have ever seen, and also one of the most sexist series I have ever seen. My face when I’m watching that show must look really weird. Roaring laughter. Scowl. Roaring laughter. Scowl. Roaring laughter. Scowl.
Ida(Quote) (Reply)
Independence Day, gpofball product placement, jingoism, and all.
The Indiana Jones movies–the armchair archeologist in me just has to grit her teeth.
The Iron Man series because if I were Pepper Potts I would have told Tony Stark to get his butt into therapy long ago, and if I were Rhodey I would’ve broken his nose. And the endless objectification of every woman who is not Pepper gets up my nose. But I love that suit!
Also the 2007 Transformers movie. Parts of it were so incredibly cool. What would it be like if you met a Real!Live!Space!Robot! and it turned out to be a Big Damn Hero and also your best buddy ever??? Geeky joy, that’s what. The sequel was so whambamsmashcrash that I just couldn’t get into it and I won’t watch the third one since I heard what happened to Megan Fox, so I get my TF fix from fanfic these days.
Jenny Islander(Quote) (Reply)
Re Shaun the Sheep: The great big fat one who eats nonstop is named Shirley?? I thought it was a (handwave handwave) boy sheep like Shaun. Shirley doesn’t bother me as a fat person because I know that some sheep really will eat things that aren’t actually food and keep eating far past satiety.
Re Chicken Run: This may be Mel Gibson’s only non-skeevy, non-macho role. SPOILERS: The movie is set on a joyless factory-style chicken farm, with everyone patterned after characters from movies about the WWII home front and/or plucky POWs. Only a few hens dream of escape; most are resigned. One day a rooster comes flying over the wall. He tells the hens that he can teach them how to fly. However, one canny hen has suspicions. It turns out that he’s running a con: he’s an escapee from a sideshow act and he can only “fly” when shot out of a cannon. He is just milking their belief as long as possible in order to get extra rations and so on. In the meantime, the owners of the farm are making plans to turn a bigger profit by selling chicken pies . . .
Jenny Islander(Quote) (Reply)
The TV series ‘Gossip Girl’. It’s all poor-little-rich-kid, and I generally can’t stand high school shows either. Not to mention holding onto 19th-century social customs is problematic for all sorts of reasons. But something about its trainwreck quality appeals. Well, and Blake Lively is lovely.
Anne(Quote) (Reply)
Jenny Islander,
She’s named in the DVD extras. I had a feeling she was probably based on some real ewes and not remotely intended to stereotype fat people or fat women in any way. But because that was pretty much all there was to her in S1, I could just hear parents saying, “You don’t want to end up like Shirley” to their little darlings, what with the obesity epidemic and all.
She’s had a couple of cool moments in S2, and that helped make her more of a real character in her own right.
Jennifer Kesler(Quote) (Reply)
Robin,
I still have the soundtrack from The Craft in my regular listening. I will be forever grateful to the producers of that movie for introducing me to Heather Nova via her cover of Peter Gabriel’s “I Have the Touch”.
Patrick McGraw(Quote) (Reply)
Sigh. Legally Blonde.
Cassandra(Quote) (Reply)
Cassandra,
Seconded!
Jennifer Kesler(Quote) (Reply)
Equilibrium and Ultraviolet.
“Terrible plots!” they say.
“Completely implausible action!” they say.
“But look Christian Bale/Milla Jovovich are shooting lots of people!” I say.
Patrick McGraw(Quote) (Reply)
@Cassandra
I maintain that Legally Blonde is a feminist movie… particularly because the musical version takes all the strong, pivotal moments between women and makes them between Elle and her new BF. It’s not a GOOD movie but I love it for being a fluffy feminist-y film.
Maria(Quote) (Reply)
Maria,
It does actually have some feminist points, which puts it well above average in that regard. Hmm.
Jennifer Kesler(Quote) (Reply)
I like Legally Blonde because Elle is pretty and bubbly and fashionable – and she doesn’t change. She grows, but the skills she develops are the same she had at the beginning of the movie, when she called out the saleswoman trying to cheat her on the price of the dress. She’s sharp and loyal and has a healthy self-esteem throughout most of the movie.
There are parts I don’t like, like the caricature of a militant lesbian feminist, the sheer Whiteness of the campus and the odd interaction between the large, awkward man and the two giggling, cruel women he was trying to score with (seriously, what was the point of that encounter? Elle is such a nice person she’ll help a loser trick the cheerleader archetypes into sleeping with him?).
But on the whole I like it because Elle doesn’t conform to Harvard, Harvard makes a space for her and her fluffy, pink pens. She’s just as fashionable as the day she arrived – that even becomes a strength and helps her during the trial. I’ll take my strong female characters where I can find them, and there’s a shortage of Princesses who aren’t made out to be either helpless or catty.
Sylvia Sybil(Quote) (Reply)
Action-heroines and heroines who are badass. Warrior women or women who go on adventures to save the world. As a muscular woman in real life, I like watching women with the same body type as myself.
(Since apparently, liking women with “masculine traits” or “strong” women is wrong, oh so very wrong)
Oh, also, Transformers.
M.(Quote) (Reply)
Bran Nu Dae. It’s like some straight white dudes thought ‘hey! let’s be all liberal and do an all-Aboriginie movie. Except we’ll give it a paper-thin plot that’s strung together by a bunch of silly songs and, oh yeah, it will star Geoffrey Rush’. But I love those silly, silly songs. (There is nothing I would rather be than to be an Aboriginie…)
Gabriella(Quote) (Reply)
Jenny Islander,
That’s not quite the plot of Chicken Run. They all assume Rocky (the rooster) can fly because of the way he turned up at the farm and the main hen Ginger insists that he teach them to fly or she’ll turn him in, he half-heartedly protests until he realises it’s pointless and that he may has well stay until his wing is fixed. He leaves and then the hens discover his secret.
It is one of my guilty pleasures because despite Gibson’s presence, I love it. The voice acting of Julia Sawalha, Jane Horrocks, Miranda Richardson, Timothy Spall, Lynn Ferguson, Imelda Staunton, etc, is tremendous, and it replays multiple viewings.
However, my real guilty pleasure is Calamity Jane. I justify it because by the end Doris Day is still wearing buckskin.
Hazel(Quote) (Reply)
I’m a believer that entertainment(movies, tv shows, comics, novels…) is kinda like having good friends and/or relatives. You don’t always agree with their decisions or their ideals, but you still love them. That said, I am quite embarrassed about these ‘favorite’ movies of mine, one of them being
*blushes*
…Overboard.
Oh GOD, it’s so messed up in so many ways! The kidnapping, the effed up assumption about women’s roles, the forced labor, hell there’s even mental health issues there!
But it’s one of the first movies that my nana and I bonded over. And it’s so ridiculously 80′s that I never took it seriously at all. And I liked the acting in it and…i’m just giving excuses now. I don’t even watch it anymore(but sometimes I kind of want to).
Also, What About Bob, which, as pointed out by my old roommates, is not good at ALL about mental health issues. Curse my love of Bill Murray’s charm!
Ebb(Quote) (Reply)
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