Comments on: Joss Whedon and feminist cookies

By: Jen

Jen — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 12:02:46 +0000

I go with my gut on this kind of issue, if the characters behave in a way that I feel is actively promoting a way of life or ethos I don’t agree with I just *can’t* continue watching it. But I never had a problem with any of Joss’s work.

Whedon is very much a Genre writer, he knows his genre inside out and so he plays with the conventions. The fact that Buffy wasn’t simply a straightforward reversal of a story with a male hero and instead concerned many female characters and their serious real life issues is important because as I’m sure you’ve discussed on this site Genres are often inextricably linked with Gender roles; I feel Joss Whedon managed to keep the spirit of the traditional Horror/action-hero genre and bypassed or at least messed around with the old gender roles to create something more than just an exception to the rule, it changed the whole genre for good.

By: Raeka

Raeka — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 10:42:20 +0000

@Shalon: I don’t remember Buffyverse very well, but I think the difference between Willow, Buffy, and Anya going crazy with power and Xander, Giles, and Angel is that I vaguely remember the men were FORCED into that change –there really isn’t much Angel can do about the curse on him, and I think Xander fell under a spell or was possessed or something supernatural?

The women all went corrupt at exercising their own, inherent power –the corruption happened as a weakness in their personality, rather than an outside force coercing them into that change.

…my apologies if I’m not quite correct, it’s been years since I saw Buffy, and it’s 2:30 AM here. But that’s kinda what I recall of the show.

By: Jennifer Kesler

Jennifer Kesler — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:34:15 +0000

Yeah – rape that leads to a nice healthy relationship, which I found rather traumatizing to read. I have never understood why so many feminists are all “Yay, Anne McCaffrey!” and then you say “but rape?” and then they’re all “Rape? What rape?” and you tell them and they’re all like, “…oh, yeah, I didn’t really think of that.” Seriously, WTF? I was maybe 19 when I read the first Pern book, and I couldn’t finish the book because I was so disturbed by rape being passed off as a good way to get your relationship started. That was the last message I wanted guys I might date getting. Jesus fucking Christ.

By: Anemone

Anemone — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:23:46 +0000

Anne McCaffrey had a lot of rape in her stories. I never liked that part.

By: Shalon

Shalon — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 06:00:15 +0000

Also as a slight aside. Angel DID have the same “Bad Willow” type problem. Remember? whenever he experienced happiness, he lost his soul, gained the full power of Angelus, went all dark sexy sadist, and had to be destroyed. in fact, Buffy had to kill him to save the world! Willow just needed to have a good cry when she did it. Angel got dusted. Joss Whedon doesn’t keep that particular conundrum female. Absolute power corrupts Willow, Buffy, Angel, Giles, Anya, even Xander in the one episode where he obtains power. They each become sexy dom-type sadists before they finally get put in their place. Absolute power corrupts every Whedon Character equally and absolutely.

By: Shalon

Shalon — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 05:47:39 +0000

I got a little lost here. just started reading this site while looking up Joss Whedon. He’s a Favorite of mine. I Love his shows mostly because his characters are loveable and normal. Even placed in extraordinary situations they are still… just like me and the people I know. I’m a strong woman, who has had enormous trouble finding my husband because I was seen as “too strong” Like any other person I fall apart after every break-up too. So I didn’t see that portrayal as anything but true to life. except that she had more power to screw up with. My question is about the reference to Another favorite of mine, the author Anne Mccaffrey. Am I missing something? Is something she wrote somehow NOT in line with feminist objectives? The Tarnsman of Gor series reference I understood. After the author’s wife broke up with him so violently around book 5, he got positively preachy in his Anti-female sentiments. But Anne Mccaffrey? I can’t even call more than two male protagonists to my mind, and all of her main characters are strong, and loving, and good. Some are more weak than others, some have more power but all are fine examples of the kind of women I believe all of us should aspire to be.

By: Female Engineers in the Media « radengineer

Female Engineers in the Media « radengineer — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 19:47:02 +0000

[...] Buffy and Angel growing up. I loved Firefly, even now I watch Dollhouse. There’s been a lot of talk around the internet about whether or not Joss is a feminist. He identifies as one and holds [...]

By: Act 44 « Fifty Two Acts

Act 44 « Fifty Two Acts — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 04:08:33 +0000

[...] is even reason to look at many aspects of the Buffyverse with a critical feminist eye– see Jenifer Kesler’s post on Joss Whedon and Feminist Cookies for more about [...]

By: SpaceWesterns.com Sideshow › 22nd Carnival of Feminist Science Fiction – Part I

Mon, 03 Nov 2008 04:12:16 +0000

[...] Center, Words From The Edge talks about in Critiquing Joss Whedon. The Hathor Legacy sums it up in Joss Whedon and feminist cookies: “No one deserves accolades for being a feminist … no one deserves is insulation from [...]

By: Patrick

Patrick — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:45:34 +0000

Great article! I don’t have too much to add regarding Whedon that hasn’t been covered in comments (my Internets were out for a friggin’ week), but a lot of it is stuff I wish more people would realize.

Good stuff regarding Claremont, as well. He’s another perfect example of a writer doing a lot of work to move things in the right direction while still having a lot to criticize.