Links of Great Interest: More on Black Swan and Precious!

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Signal Boost: THE STREET NEEDS FUNDING TO BECOME A MOVIE!

Signal Boost: Native family assaulted by skinheads — help them and others get justice.

Signal Boost: Tony Ward is kind of amazing, and provides free resources to help educators design culturally relevant pedagogy to their students. He’s writing a book!

Kansas is not a good place for women. Neither is the GOP.

Reducing the stigma from abortion –> a case for marketing.

Duke Nukem… is not a good game.

Quick How To on brainwashing voters.

VONA RULES!

Precious and Black Swan: the black survivor vs. the white victim. Also: the sequel to Push, the book Precious is based on, is now out.

Female armor SUCKS.

The numbers behind reviews…

“It is a solidarity designation.”

White guy mad at lack of strong “buddy” roles for white guys.

Woman drowns in public pool.

Leigh is starting a massive ficalicious apocalypse tumblr.

First out soldier to die after the repeal of DADT.

Rebooting comics and women

Woman catches toddler who fell 10 stories

FORESKIN MAN!

Expat housewife helps Libyan rebels.

Short recap: Rebecca Watson was asked to give a speech about feminism and atheism. She mentioned a personal example of an unnamed man propositioning her in an elevator at 4 AM and said something to the effect of, “Guys, don’t do this. It’s creepy and it makes women uncomfortable at atheist conferences.” The atheist blogosphere was then swarmed by MRA trolls claiming the proposition wasn’t sexist and women should feel flattered when they find themselves trapped and alone with a stranger who wants sex. Including Richard Dawkins, an atheist heavyweight, who claimed that the proposition was as offensive as chewing gum. Anyway, I really liked PZ Myers’ response: “If you’re a decent human being, here’s how to flirt without looking skeevy. If you can’t handle this, please don’t even come.

An update on Yemen

Oh shit! A con report from the Caribbean! <3 <3 <3

From Casey:

For those who can’t see it, it’s a pseudo-anime style picture of three protesters at what appears to be a gay pride rally. A white
woman holds a sign saying “FOR” whilst holding her fist in the air, next to her is a brown man gritting his teeth and holding a sign that
says “AGAINST”, the third person is a white man with an excited look on his face holding a sign saying “I JUST WANTED TO HOLD A SIGN AND MAKE NOISES TOO”.

The author says this: “Good ol’ politics! No matter how passionate and active you are toward your cause, you’ll
always be just a sign-waving, noise-making collection of cells taking up space on sidewalk intersection corners. I understand why though. It’s fun to have a supposedly legitimate excuse to run around yelling at the poor public about beliefs that no one wants to hear
I can’t wait for election times coming up. Sign waving people gathering pointless screaming car honking season!”

This really irritated me.

The American Widow Project connects a new generation of war widows with one another.

Is Marriage for RichWhite People?

 

Holy bloodstains, Batman!

Let’s play “Spot the Racist Charge!”

Nikki Giovanni on reading and family

The SFPA is engaging in racefail. Again.

Texting is reviving some endangered languages.

Oh, Chloe King.

Fanfic NOM NOM NOM.

What the fuck, Jim Butcher. Chicago needs some love, y’all.

Comments

  1. says

    Forgot to include this disclaimer when I submitted the PZ Myers link: while the articles are usually good, the comments section of Pharyngula is a warzone. Don full body armor before wading in.

    It really amuses me that people are referring to Duke Nukem Forever as DNF, because in the bookish circles I travel in that stands for Did Not Finish. As in, “I had to DNF that wallbanger, not enough aspirin in the world for the headache it was giving me”. Personally I’m too jaded to care about this misogynistic piece of crap, although I am glad others are taking it apart, but this comment left on the Larkin blog inspired rage in me:

    In short, please let the gamer community handle this one. We know that it crossed the line, but we are extremely possessive of our right and responsibility to police that line ourselves.

    Which 1) seems to preclude the possibility of female gamers and non-female gamers whose heads aren’t up their asses, 2) argues that if Larkin doesn’t play video games s/he doesn’t get to be offended by them, never mind that shit like this dissuades many people from becoming more involved in games and gamerism in the first place, and 3) you lose all right to claim this is a “family matter” when you hang your posters in the subway!

    I found this quote from the Precious Swan article really telling:

    However, black dysfunction is often reduced to sociology, while white dysfunction is reduced to psychology.

    Because that is both an effect and a cause of racism: overemphasizing group A’s problem with X while simultaneously underemphasizing group B’s same problem with X. The result looks like group A has more X than B, or proportionately more X than B.

    Saddened but not surprised that science fiction media doesn’t value the contributions of women as highly as men. There are a lot of asshole geeks out there who think being female and being geeky are mutually exclusive; that a woman can never be a true geek.

  2. Casey says

    That guide to Fox News’ brainwashing was informative, tampon/pad ads were interesting/giggle-inducing and the DC article was enlightening, unfortunately (as per usual?) my pet peeve is that the comment sections for the first two links sucked (and were poorly formatted) and the DC articles comment section was dominated by some condescending ‘splainer’s TL;DR post (good thing the rational people got the final word on that one).

    Ugh, that whole “banning circumcision” thing in SF reminds me of France banning the burqua, not to mention that awful anti-Semitic cartoon…there are plenty of valid reasons to be against regulation circumcision but DON’T FUCKING FALL BACK ON RACIST SHIT in a piss-poor attempt to “prove your point”…plus, the art looks God-awful. It might be fun for Linkara to rip on in Atop the Fourth Wall.

  3. Casey says

    Sylvia Sybil: It really amuses me that people are referring to Duke Nukem Forever as DNF, because in the bookish circles I travel in that stands for Did Not Finish.

    I must admit, a smug self-satisfaction kinda washed over me when I found out that not only is Duke Nukem horrible in terms of content, but also in terms of gameplay/graphics/everything else and is being summarily hosed by critics and players alike.

    Sylvia Sybil: There are a lot of asshole geeks out there who think being female and being geeky are mutually exclusive; that a woman can never be a true geek.

    Yeesh, tell me about it. In the communities I stumble upon I always find misogynist dude-bros stumble upon a female geek/gamer they immediately either peg her as a “GAMUR GURRL”, regarding her with scorn, seething resentment, comparing them to Boxxy and/or iJustine in a negative light or saying something like “I WANNA PUNCH THIS BITCH IN THE FACE” if she says/does something cute (which they will immediately construe as her “trying too hard” or being “attention whore-y”).

  4. says

    Casey: there are plenty of valid reasons to be against regulation circumcision but DON’T FUCKING FALL BACK ON RACIST SHIT in a piss-poor attempt to “prove your point”

    This is precisely how I feel. Seriously, there are so many great arguments against circumcision, but the Antisemitism and Islamophobia just derails the whole thing into racefail and religionfail.

  5. Azzy says

    Re: SFPA racefail, the premise of the poem in question (that the accused turns out to be an animal) sounds identical to a fable I read many years ago. Which would make the author not only a bigot, but a plagiarist a well. What an upstanding indvidual!

  6. says

    “White guy mad at lack of strong “buddy” roles for white guys.”

    He was so close to having a good point here. So very…very…very close…and yet he failed. Hard. It’s like he almost got what the problem was, but chose instead to make it all about him and his privilege.

    Frankly, I’d like to see more cases of the ‘ethnic guy’ being the ‘main’ or ‘lead’ or whatever the term is these days, and the white guy being the supportive (or comic relief) partner/best friend. The whole ‘the ethnic guy’ as the support/lesser character as the formula in ‘buddy’ movies is irritating.

    They are either both white, or the ‘ethnic guy’ is the one standing behind.

    Further note: when the ethnic guy is a girl and she’s made into an over idealized Mary-Sue sex object doing karate in 6″ stiletto heels and/or bikini body armor, it doesn’t count.

  7. says

    WithinthisMind: when the ethnic guy is a girl and she’s made into an over idealized Mary-Sue sex object doing karate in 6″ stiletto heels and/or bikini body armor, it doesn’t count.

    Well, no, because then it’s not a buddy movie, it’s a romance! Don’t you know that it’s impossible for men and women to have friendships? /snark

  8. Pumpkin says

    Ugh, Richard Dawkins… I detest the man. Being a life-long atheist, I admit I was actually a fan of him back in the day, what with the “New Atheist” revivalism and all that jazz. Then I started noticing the elitist douchebaggery that so frequently went unchallenged in atheist circles. As in any old clique, really – I just thought atheism would be different for some reason. Nope. Same old ethnocentric bigotry that you’d find any old place.

    Newsflash, elitists: just because your sexism wasn’t demanded of you by an ancient tome and was in fact arrived at by your own volition, that does not make it any more heinous than that of a theist. Anti-theists need to wake the hell up and realise that human sociology and psychology are to blame for sexism and racism. Religious bigotry is merely a manifestation of this, not a cause. Therefore, they’re just as susceptible to hate, intolerance and insensitivity as theists are.

    And let’s not forget atheism’s own unique problems. For one, I am sick and tired of the “freedom of speech any time, all the time, in your face, at your funeral, in an elevator at 4am” mentality. I get so tired of being told how sacrosanct “freedom of douchebaggery” is (I re-named it to eliminate sentimentalism). Any time I have to put up with hate speech, I’m always told (by my fellow LGBTs, no less) “think how much worse it would be if they weren’t allowed to say these things”. You mean if we took such limitations to their exaggerated, reductio ad absurdum conclusions? Right, same argument works for hate speech. Frankly, I’d take my chances with the former.

    Unrestricted freedom of douchebaggery is the mantra of the privileged. It seeks to preserve the status quo, and it quashes all attempts to restrict the spread of hatred. Many people who support it do so innocently, but then you get people like Dawkins who couldn’t give two poops who gets hurt in their quest for intellectual “evolution”. To illustrate my point, here’s an actual quote from one of the blog’s commentators: “Elevator Guy had the *right* to do what he did. People have the right to be crude and dense.” Way to miss the point, guys.

  9. Pumpkin says

    As for that circumcision article, I detested it. Yes, the racism is horrible and immensely creepy and I don’t condone it in the slightest, but I found it hard to concentrate on the main thrust of the article after noticing that the author is a circumcision sympathiser.

    Reading those first few paragraphs (“doctors agree with me”, “white people are trying to police minorities”, “politicians are trying to police parents”, “it’s not even that big a deal”, etc.) just made me furious. It just made me so angry and upset. I couldn’t care less if this is seen as white people trying to police what other cultures do. Hell, let’s take it to the extreme and imagine that white people were the only ethnic group who didn’t practice infant circumcision and they were trying to police the whole damn world – I would still be on their side in trying to get it stopped.

    Screw race, screw culture, screw history and tradition – none of that is anywhere NEAR as important as an infant’s right to not have parts of its body surgically removed for cosmetic or cultural purposes. Not. Even. Fucking. CLOSE.

    And I don’t give a crap about how much worse female genital mutilation is (in the context of belittling the problem of male circumcision, that is – I fully acknowledge that FGM is much worse in all aspects). That doesn’t diminish male circumcision’s seriousness. This is still mutilation, and it’s still a grotesque and utterly indefensible violation of a child’s right to bodily integrity. I don’t care what anyone’s heard about how little difference it makes in sensation and function or that there’s supposed medical benefits, because even if either of these things were in any way true, it still wouldn’t matter. The child’s right to choose for themself, when they can give informed consent, is all that matters. Let’s just wait and see how few line up for the operation once they’re actually given a choice.

    I had an odd reaction to the author being a woman, too. This odd sort of exasperation that she would so willingly be complicit in trying to ruin things for my gender – things that don’t even affect her own! It’s the tiniest drop in the ocean compared to what women have to put up with, given that men are actually in charge of society and that they are obsessed with controlling every aspect of women’s bodies. But, still, it was interesting to at least get a whiff of what that might feel like.

  10. Patrick McGraw says

    Pumpkin,

    I lost any interest in what Dawkins had to say when he told rape victims that their having been repeatedly raped as children was a far lesser abuse than having been raised in a religious environment.

  11. says

    I was thinking about trying to write an article explaining to men what it feels like when a woman gets propositioned in an elevator. Do you think something like this would be helpful?

    You’re a man. A REALLY big, muscly guy gets in the elevator with you. He tells you he’d like to fuck you. You feel keenly aware that if he wanted, he could easily just spin you round, pull down your pants and fuck your anus as hard as he wants. You know it can happen, because this has happened to lots of men you know. You’ve seen it on literally thousands of TV shows and movies since you were a kid. And you also know that no one would believe you if you reported it, because he’s well-dressed and looks extremely respectable. And he wants to fuck you, and he can rape you if you refuse. Maybe you should just give him a blow job, to be safe. But then wouldn’t that be the same as being raped, since you don’t want to have sex with this guy? Yes, except, well, you’d retain some small measure of control. As you prepare to get on your knees, you think, God, I hope he doesn’t ask for my telephone number afterwards.

    I’m not sure there’s ANY way to convey to someone who’s NOT lived under the treat of rape all his life what it’s like. That’s my best attempt.

  12. says

    Pumpkin,

    Pumpkin, you raise a really complicated issue. ITA with you that a child’s rights always come before the right of the parents to practice a religion or live in filth or be neglectful or abusive in any way. Religion is no excuse for these things IMO.

    But I can’t “side” with people who are mainly hating on the religion, and using circumcision to achieve their bigoted goals. This is a big part of why I eschew labels in general – I also can’t side with probably the majority of people who call themselves feminists (because they don’t include all other anti-bigotries in their particular feminism).

    So for me, I have to just take my own position on this WITHOUT joining anybody’s side. If you join a side, then you become responsible in part for their bigotry. But you can have the same opinion for non-bigoted reasons without actually joining them. Does that make sense?

  13. says

    Pumpkin: Any time I have to put up with hate speech, I’m always told (by my fellow LGBTs, no less) “think how much worse it would be if they weren’t allowed to say these things”.

    Why do so many people think that “can” and “should” are synonyms? Plenty of harmful things are legal. I can jump off a bridge and kill myself, doesn’t mean I should. Likewise, saying “You shouldn’t call me a dyke” doesn’t mean you can’t. Obviously you can, you just did. And anyway, freedom of speech doesn’t exist on someone else’s blog.

    Pumpkin: Screw race, screw culture, screw history and tradition – none of that is anywhere NEAR as important as an infant’s right to not have parts of its body surgically removed for cosmetic or cultural purposes. Not. Even. Fucking. CLOSE.

    This is where it gets complicated. If you’re White and you’re trying to get a White person to cut it out, you can ignore history because there’s not much in there that’s been aimed at you. If you’re White and you’re talking to a Jew or a Christian talking to a Muslim, you have to explain that no really, this is different from all the times my ancestors oppressed and suppressed yours. If you’re ignorant of history or you dismiss it as unimportant, your message is going to be much less effective because your audience is going to know that you don’t give a shit about anyone’s perspective but your own. If you don’t understand the racism/religionism from the past, how can you convince the present that your proposal is different?

    Jennifer Kesler,

    I’ve seen several attempts to explain it in the atheist blogosphere – Greg Laden, Jen McCreight, Phil Plait – but I think getting the message into as many spheres as possible would be a good thing. Plus, from what I saw, most of the people trying to explain why it was bad were men, and most of the women were blogging about different, related points. Different perspectives on this would probably be helpful.

    Patrick McGraw,

    I vaguely remember that. Something about how religion is a rape of the mind and that’s worse than a rape of the body. Totally oblivious to the fact that sexual rape is a rape of the mind. The physical effects of rape are often the first to heal. Actually, given this incident and the most recent one, it seems like Dawkins just doesn’t know what rape is, period.

  14. Patrick McGraw says

    Sylvia Sybil,

    I agree. In the same article, he told these survivors of childhood rape, more or less: “Get over it. A priest once grabbed my ass and you don’t see me whining about it.”

  15. SunlessNick says

    I was thinking about trying to write an article explaining to men what it feels like when a woman gets propositioned in an elevator. Do you think something like this would be helpful?

    Perhaps with the detail that of the people who do believe you, many would wonder why you aren’t flattered by the incident, while many others would lecture you on what you did to provoke it.

  16. Jenny Islander says

    Yes. Also, maybe your first impulse when the guy gets on the elevator is to avoid eye contact, attempting to disengage mentally in the vain hope that he will think you are boring enough to ignore. Your second impulse is to quickly check and adjust your clothing as unobtrusively as possible: did your trousers ride up to cup your buttocks while you weren’t paying attention? Could you pretend to be cold so you could close your jacket just enough to hide your crotch? Is this one going to find you sexy, or is he going to think you’re ugly enough to be grateful if a complete stranger talks about wanting to use you for sex? God, couldn’t you become completely invisible, just for five minutes? He’s drunk. Maybe he’ll pass out.

  17. says

    Also, a lot of commenters are referring to women who feel this way as “neurotic” and “paranoid”; maybe show why someone might feel this way and how this is a logical response to the stimuli we receive on a daily basis.

  18. says

    SunlessNick, yes, good points!

    Jenny Islander, great! We’ve got a collaboration going here! :D

    Sylvia Sybil, that’s the real trick, because it’s a privilege to think, “Gee, how could she possibly assume that guy was a rapist?” I could maybe link to Schroedinger’s Rapist, but check this thread, which has both depressing and encouraging responses to the post. I mean, the OP is accusing her of uncritical thinking, and people in the thread are all, “Wow, I really doubt 1 in 6 women get raped. I just don’t buy it.” That’s critical thinking how? I’m not sure I know how to break through the brick wall of privilege that would allow you to think she’s being paranoid. What examples could I use? If they simply refuse to believe that rape is common, then of course they’re going to think anyone worrying about it is about as rational as someone constantly worried a jumbo jet is going to fall out of the sky and land on them.

  19. says

    Patrick McGraw,

    I’m sorry to say it, but some of the nastiest attitudes toward abuse victims come from – wait for it – abuse victims. I don’t know if they’re in denial, or they just haven’t processed, or they didn’t get the sympathy and understanding they needed at the time, but they can be utterly vicious, as if they are punishing other victims to cope with their own victimhood.

    It took me a lot of reading up on how common it is for serial killers and rapists to have been abused, but eventually I got the message: fuck ‘em. Anybody who’s nasty to victims needs to be ignored and shunned by society. Sorry they had problems, but to turn the tables on them, so did the rest of us, and oh look how you don’t see us lashing out at others because of it. So, “get over it”, turdbreath.

  20. Shaun says

    This is slightly off-topic, but I’m trying to explain to a man on FB that victim blaming exists re: rape (yes, seriously, that is a point of contention) and I’m not on my computer today so I don’t have any bookmarks handy. Wasn’t there a judge recently who said an 11 or 12-year-old girl was dressed in a way that provoked her own rape? Or any other recent relevant cases? I seriously have not had to establish the existence of victim blaming in over a year cause I usually hang out with you classy people.

  21. says

    Jennifer Kesler,

    Some people you can’t get through to without a sledge hammer, like the guy who was only interested in obtaining permission to sexually harass Natalie Portman. How to reach the rest of them, the ones who aren’t aware of their privilege but aren’t necessarily invested in it…well, that’s the million dollar question, isn’t it? I was kind of hoping you’d magically have the answer. :P I don’t think you can do it in a single article or even a single website, but maybe your article will be the tenth one they’ve read and the one to tip the scales. “You can lead a student to knowledge but you can’t make them think.” Put it out there, back it up, and hopefully the ones who can use critical thinking will understand or at least not reject it outright.

  22. says

    Shaun,

    I searched for the example you mentioned and several popped up about a judge in Manitoba, Canada this last February. The survivor was 20 years old, though. Surprisingly, or perhaps unsurprisingly, typing “judge rape” into Google triggers an autocomplete menu of “judge blames rape victim”, etc., none of them positive. I’m sure you could find plenty of similar cases easily.

    Here’s one example from Shakesville, a 12yo raped by a 14yo on school grounds. The teachers are dismissing it because she didn’t scream.

  23. says

    Shaun,

    (Sorry for the double post, forgot to mention this)

    Or just follow the link Jennifer posted in #19, there are commenters wondering if the rape statistics include, “Had one drink too many and regretted it the next morning” (word to the wise: they do, because that’s rape) and claiming that if women didn’t engage in “risky” behavior like drinking then the rate of rape would drop.

  24. Robin says

    Pumpkin, Unrestricted freedom of douchebaggery is the mantra of the privileged.

    Absolutely. I don’t recall who said it anymore, but one of the bloggers I follow made a wonderful counterpoint to the “freedom of douchebaggery” (love that phrasing, by the way) argument. It boils down to — Under the Bill of Rights, you have the right to say whatever you want (barring treason and such). And I have the right to find it offensive and call you an asshole in return.

    The thing that said douchebags don’t get is that freedom of speech applies to all parties in a conversation, as does the freedom to fight back against discrimination, and the right to be offended, and the right to walk away when it’s not worth arguing with a closed-minded jerk.

  25. says

    Shaun,

    I’m pretty sure it was in one of the LOGI, I’m just not sure which, or of any way to search them.

    Sylvia Sybil: claiming that if women didn’t engage in “risky” behavior like drinking then the rate of rape would drop.

    It would drop, but does that alone mean it’s a good solution? Because it would drop much further if we:

    –Put all men in jail.
    –Killed all men and stored some sperm for propagation.

    Therefore those are automatically better ideas which we should implement immediately, right? Yeah, I don’t think so either. But it’s true that both these options would work much better than the “restrict women’s lives” plan we’ve been following for hundreds of years with no drop in rape rates. Because prisoners can always be preyed on – vulnerable to their guards and anyone their guards let in. Prisoners, like women, are seen as property, and guards identify with other people outside of prison. Guards are more likely to smuggle people in to hurt prisoners than to smuggle prisoners out to hurt others. That psychology is what’s at work behind the truism that a woman is most likely to be raped by someone at home or known to her.

    As long as we keep treating women like prisoners, we actually encourage the view that they’re fair game for rapists.

    An even better solution than any of the draconian measures mentioned by rape apologists or by me (facetiously) is for everyone to be taught that rape is not okay, and your desire to “get laid” has nothing to do with it. Maybe in a world where rape was truly rare, getting propositioned by a stranger in an elevator in the wee hours would be no more obnoxious than listening to someone pop bubblegum. And – oh, look! That is the world in which Dawkins lives. A world where the chances of HIS getting raped in that situation are pretty remote.

  26. Jenny Islander says

    I think that many people who don’t believe in rape culture haven’t noticed that women are expected, all day every day, to put up with things that men consider an assault on their dignity. Smile, baby. Why won’t you smile for me? You look sexually attractive to me but you won’t have sex with me–there must be something wrong with you and I’m going to tell you so. Ima just let my eyes take a walk all over you here; why else did you leave the house this morning? Now I’ll tell a joke that is only funny if you consider your own gender to be subhuman, just to watch how you react. I’m aroused and I know you know it and the fact that you are reacting at all, even with disgust, must mean that you’re interested, and if you don’t do what I want you are depriving me of something that is rightfully mine. And running through all of this is the fact that I can loom over you and overpower you physically and we both know it.

    Otherwise nice men pull this crap and don’t think twice about it.

  27. says

    Jennifer Kesler,

    Do you happen to have support for that handy? Because as I recall, the riskiest behaviors women can engage in are going to college, joining the military, earning less than $15k annually, being under age 18, etc. Maybe the rates would drop by a miniscule amount, to account for those cases when a rapist wasn’t planning to rape but stumbled across a pre-made opportunity, but I think in most cases rapists will manufacture a victim when they can’t find one. Anecdata alert, but all of the women I know who were raped when drunk were also raped by that same person in other circumstances.

  28. says

    Sylvia Sybil,

    Um, did you take in anything I said past “it would”? I’ll get back to this in the 2nd paragraph.

    My logic was simply: rape rates often rise proportionately in contexts where women and girls are drinking more than they would be in other contexts. I wasn’t arguing that if all female drinking stopped, it would drop the rate a lot, or even enough to be worth talking about from an effectiveness standpoint – it might well be miniscule, as you said. But politicians often espouse solutions that are marginally effective, at best, and use that “effectiveness” as justification.

    I may have been unclear, but I think you kind of really missed my point, which was that effectiveness is NOT proof of a proposed solution’s merit. I mean, you can resolve a hostage situation by shooting the hostage, but most people would object to that as a “solution”, I hope. And you could lower the rape rate hugely by putting all men in jail, but again, most people would reject it. If we’re supposed to lower rape stats by asking half the species to curtailing their rights significantly compared to those of the rest of the species, then even if that solution is effective, it would still be wrong. Solutions must be examined holistically and not just for effectiveness.

    And the reason that point is so important is that, to some twisted minds, you just argued that if women were banned from going to college or joining the military, the rape rates would lower. Some people have offered me that solution in all seriousness. And given how much they’ve risen since women started engaging in those activities, there’s almost no question there’d be a noticeable statistical drop if we, say, banned women from college and the military. And a lot of people see no reason why that’s an unreasonable concession to ask of women.

    I NEVER get into effectiveness arguments with rape apologists, because the fact is they DO have some gobsmacking ideas that would admittedly lower rape rates. Instead, I argue that “solutions” which curtail people’s rights to live and move about and do stuff, however effective, are by their nature not real solutions – anymore than “shoot the hostage” is a viable solution to a hostage situation.

  29. says

    Jennifer Kesler,

    I see your point now. Possibly I’ve been arguing with rape apologists too long, because when I saw you ignoring that point (“it would drop”) and focusing on another (“so should we do it?”), I assumed you were conceding the point, which would be victim blaming. Probably a sign I should get off the internet and enjoy some fresh, non-MRAsshole contaminated air. :)

  30. sbg says

    Jenny Islander,
    I actually had a very depressing moment while visiting family. A couple of months ago, my mom said something very astute and aware about rape culture … which was pretty much negated to me during this visit, when she engaged in a very long, horrendous conversation with one of my sisters about how girls shouldn’t wear bikinis because that’s sleazy and is basically asking for bad things to happen; it was their job to control their environment and body so as not to borrow trouble, etc., etc.

    I attempted to clue them in to their woefully misinformed opinions, failed and started downing vodka lemonades like they were Kool-Aid instead.

    Hmm, what was my point? Oh, that somehow there are people who get that rape culture is real on one hand, yet also perpetuate it themselves with their other hand and we never. get. anywhere.

  31. Shaun says

    Maria:
    Shaun,

    Do you mean this:

    http://news.change.org/stories/new-york-times-blames-11-year-old-girl-for-her-gang-rape

    You know… I don’t even know how to respond to the fact I was thinking about a specific case, and then I get several links to and find via google COMPLETELY different cases which are similar enough to prove the point.

    Jennifer, I love your extremely logical argument there. Sadly I don’t think this is going to go anywhere since dude is rape apologizing all over the thread (I just pulled out Derailing for Dummies and listed all the techniques he learned) but it might be useful for other people reading.

    Also I’m apparently JUST LIKE a fundamentalist Christian. I don’t even know what kind of derail that is, I’m still kind of amazed at the comparison.

  32. says

    Shaun: Jennifer, I love your extremely logical argument there. Sadly I don’t think this is going to go anywhere since dude is rape apologizing all over the thread (I just pulled out Derailing for Dummies and listed all the techniques he learned) but it might be useful for other people reading.

    *Confused* What thread are you talking about?

  33. Shaun says

    Jennifer Kesler,

    Yeah sorry. The creepy rape apologist was on a friend’s facebook. He’s since been defriended after stating that rape was a “natural consequence” of how women dress and implying that this is also the case for 11-year-old girls, SO, I don’t think your brilliant logic would have made a difference.

  34. Shaun says

    Ironically, this was in response to pictures from SlutWalk, initiated by his assertion SlutWalk makes no sense/is unnecessary and false.

  35. Korva says

    Pumpkin, I hear you. I’ve been an atheist for as long as I can remember — except for an ugly period of being guilt-tripped and fear-mongered into religion when I was first manifesting my mental problems at full tilt as a young teen. Later, around twenty, I had long left that behind and got into some “loud-mouthed atheist” circles (who, thankfully, really WERE forward about the whole gender/sexuality/race issues) as a kind of backlash to that experience and in delight that I wasn’t alone. It felt bloody GOOD to let all the rage out and really speak my mind. I drifted away later because flaming proselytizing trolls is only novel for so long and doesn’t really solve anything, and I discovered more constructive/interesting things on the ‘net.

    Color me sickened and furious when I later found out that some “famous”, “big-name” atheists are just as full of misogynist, homophobic etc. hate and contempt as the most backwards theists. If they really were skeptics and critical thinkers and good scientists, then why don’t they bloody USE the tools that this gives them to examine and deconstruct their sky-high shitpile of privilege? But no, instead they make up some awful pseudo-scientific excuses and enshrine them like a “holy book”. Way to go, guys. I still can’t stand most religions I know of, but if anyone needed proof that religion ISN’T the root of all problems, Dawkins and his wankbuddies provide plenty of it.

    Ironic, really.

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