Links of Great Interest: Hooray!

Books can change lives. 

From Rosalind:

I was hoping you could include this Huffington Post article
about Carmen Tafolla in your links round up. Ms. Tafolla is a
fabulous, feminist writer who has recently been tapped as the first
ever poet laureate in San Antonio, TX, just as her books have been
pulled from shelves in Tuscon schools.

Full dislosure (and why I’m submitting under my real name instead of
the anonymous handle I generally use): I’m an intern at Wings Press,
the publishing house which has printed a lot of Ms. Tafolla’s work,
including the recent anniversary edition of “Curandera,” the book
removed in AZ. (We even included a catchy little “Banned in Arizona!”
tag, because really, you just have to have a sense of humor about
these things.)

Carmen Tafolla’s website is

Thanks so much!


Donate to an abortion fund.

Older black vet killed at home when police are called for a medical emergency.

From Daydreamer:

As part of her floor speech pushing to reauthorize the Violence
Against Women Act (VAWA) on Wednesday, Rep. Gwen Moore (D-Wis.) told
the story of her own history of being sexually assaulted during her
childhood and then raped as a young woman.

The best birth control in the world.

From Ara:

It’s the first letter to Miss Manners that I’m pointing out here– it is ridiculous to me that in this day and age, we must protect the male ego so strongly that your options, according to her, would be to attend every event with the first boy who asks you, or never attend at all, because it would be rude to turn down one boy and then accept with another. (I’ll grant that it’s rude to accept with one boy and then change your mind because someone better asked, but there’s no indication this girl ever said yes to begin with.)

Shadows from another Place blurs the line between two cityscapes.

From Casey:

From Womanist Musings, some white guy bawwws to Renee about how he
wants to say the n-word without consequence (and sends her an icky
e-mail to plead his case).

From SunlessNick:

 Republican Congressman tells female voters to support the Democrats (in a good way):

“Look at what they were wearing” has spread from rape to murder.  I don’t know what to say to that.

An amazing fanfic on how Rue becomes the Mockingjay.

From Daydreamer and Spartokos:

Spartokos writes: Like a lot of Cracked articles, surprising amount of truth here. All

except the last one, where the author plays into the age-old “vagina
power” myth. Still worth a read, IMO.

On “fake geek girls.”

I fucking loved Young Adult

From Casey:

On July 12th, 2012, ISP are gonna start spying on their customers, if
you download any copywritten material, they could throttle your
internet or put you on a blacklist/restrict your internet access.


It’s time to arrest Grandma. In a move shockingly similar to an abusive partner, the state seeks to isolate teen girls from adults in their life who are willing to help them make choices about their reproductive health.

Disney Princesses go all versimilitudinous on your ass.

On Trayvon and class.

The Hunger Games and whitewashing.

In support of Amina!

10000 men supporting VAWA.

Abortions should require a permission slip.

From Spartokos:

Women should stay with abusive partners? WTF is this bullshit?

My name is not Alissa.

From CloudTigress:

On the off-chance that this SF_Drama link hasn’t been sent in
already, there is apparently a person going around befriending LGBQ
people on the Internet, getting their addresses, then forcibly outing
them to their families and anti-LGBQ groups in their native countries.
This needs a signal boost, at the very least.

From Jenica:

I just wanted to pass along a graphic that my team and I created
about the lack of women in math and sciences today, and the social
implications of why this happens.

Racist teacher calls student an unwanted piece of chocolate.

From Casey:

From ThinkProgress, Alaskan State Representative Alan Dick advocates
women only being able to get an abortion if their “impregnators”
signed off on it.

Arizona Rep. Terri Proud says women should be forced to watch an
abortion be performed before having one.

From Amy:

Are thin women the enemy? While we definitely have a societal problem of idolizing the very

thin as the one way to be beautiful, is this really the answer?

On Mary Sues.

More racism in WOW.

Racism and besmirching a dead child’s memory.

Clinic landlord turns the tables on anti-abortion protestors, but still faces constant harassment.


  1. Red says

    I BEG YOUR PARDON, Miss Manners?

    Where is it written that I, a single woman, am under ANY obligation to accept an invitation to an event with someone to whom I feel no attraction? Who is helped in that scenario? The girl isn’t being rude, she’s being honest. (if she outright MOCKS him, that’s a whole other deal)

    If she turns down one guy for the same event and later says yes to another guy, that’s within her right.


  2. says

    Honestly that Cracked article pissed me right the fuck off when I read it. They had me for the first two entries and then it was like “I don’t have any will of my own, it’s all penis all the time! It’s not my fault I’m sexually objectifying you at a completely inappropriate time, Doc Bonerhelmet is completely in charge of my mental faculties! You have all the power over me wahhhhhhh” and doesn’t ever address the fact that that way of thinking is socially constructed as being A-OK for men to do and even if it was some sort of legitimate biological response, we’d never know because we’re so steeped in a culture that worships the male gaze and the only way we’ll find out if it’s biological or just a result of socializing boys to be entitled pricks thinking they can sexualize any woman any time they like with little to no consequence. (Sorry if this is kind of rambly, I was up late last night.)

  3. says

    Red, I think you’re confused, Red. See, turning a guy down is exactly the same as mocking him. When you say, “Look, you’re a great guy, but I’m just not interested”, what he hears is “You short-penised little bag of pus, I wouldn’t touch you if you were the last slimeball on earth, bwahahahahaha!” And of course, what MEN hear is all that matters.

    I think I wrote a post about this somewhere… I have been outright told I was “mean” to turn down a man I wasn’t interested in, EVEN when he expressed no regrets about the rejection and actually wasn’t all that interested in me to start with. And it’s usually WOMEN who counsel me that it was my duty to go out with him.

    Additionally I can’t tell you how many times as a girl I was counseled to “force myself” to go out with anyone who asked me, in hopes I would eventually see what was so much better about going on awkward dates with guys who weren’t really all that into me but couldn’t score a hotter chick compared to staying at home and writing music, novels or whatever I was into at the time that transported me into a realm of bliss. The idea of me purposely going dateless seemed more abhorrent to people than the idea that I was actually just gay and in denial, as a couple of “friends” tried to convince me.

    And folks wonder why I hate people. Jesus.

    Love love love the article on the RISUG for men. Single men who don’t want to pay child support while screwing around should be lining up for this. It may also be a better option than a vasectomy, which a number of families I know have chosen when they decide they’re done with having kids. Children are not a women’s issue. Men shouldn’t be taught to go through life with some vague idea that She’ll Take Care Of That Stuff. They should be taught that if they want to avoid having kids they didn’t intend to have, here are the best ways to go about it, pick one. And I would be all for govt funding of it, even though it’s clearly not a healthcare issue for men per se (I mean, they’re not going to get pregnant and have complications) – it’s like giving boys the HPV vaccine. You’re protecting everybody from psychological stress (custody and support fights and trials) and protecting women from unwanted pregnancy AND unwanted or unfeasible (meaning: mom can’t afford you and isn’t getting any help from anywhere) babies from the shit they often have to grow up with. I am so down with that.

  4. says

    That info graphic on women in math and science really got me with “only 20% of women with a degree in math and sciences even work in a related field”. Yep, that’s me. Two degrees in geology and no work in that field since school.

    I never doubted my ability in school, since I got marks as reinforcement, but it was progressively harder to be in a male dominated environment where many of the males seemed to want to exclude me precisely because I was female. Computer science in high school was the worst.

  5. Patrick McGraw says


    Apparently Miss Manners believes that women are subject to “calling dibs.” Like the last slice of pizza or something else that is valued only for being used. And any woman who rejects this principle is hurting some poor young man’s feeeeeelings.

    You know what? I got turned down in high school. By girls who subsequently dated other guys. Were my feelings hurt? Of course, I was an emotionally sensitive teenager. But since none of the girls who turned me down were mean about it, any hurt feelings on my part were my problem.

  6. Patrick McGraw says

    Well, I was required to read literature and watch educational videos before my dialysis catheter surgery and my kidney transplant surgery. Oh wait, that’s because that was legitimate medical information that I needed in order to understand the real medical consequences of the live-saving procedures I was about to undergo. Which is why the educational requirement did NOT require me or my cousin to watch vidoes of kidney transplants first.

    (They did offer us complementary DVDs of our surgeries afterwards, though.)

  7. says

    Re: that RISUG birth control…my wife was just looking at that article a couple days ago, and we were both like “why isn’t this being offered in America?”

    Re: Richard Hanna…wow, I guess not all Republicans are complete douchebags. Kudos for honesty.

    Re: Disney princesses…I’m not really sure what to think about those. I mean, I guess the art is good, but it’s still pretty standard portrayals. Is there something I’m missing?

    Re: Jenica’s link about women in math/science…awesome, awesome stuff. Will do my best to pass it along.

    Re: racist teacher…are you fucking kidding me? How has this woman not been fired already? Her skin color is (IMO) utterly irrelevant; her actions are unacceptable.

    To Andrea, re: the Cracked article.

    While I understand where you’re coming from, going off the title (how men are trained to hate women), I took it as pointing out that these things are not really true, but that boys/men are taught that they are. Granted, that’s just my take, and they probably could have done a better job of pointing that out (I can’t double-check the article from work).

  8. Katie says


    They have for a while. Or, at least I assume that’s where the footage came from for the surgeries we watched right after lunch in health class during my high school years.

  9. says

    Yeah, I like Miss Manners about eighty percent of the time, but the other twenty…not so much.

    I mean, I get that this is theoretically similar to the thing where you don’t decline any social invitation, romantic or not, and then accept another for the same date unless you have a good reason or the first person will likely not find out: it’s a pretty clear statement that you don’t like them that much. (Which is why I’m inclined to add a Category 3: you *don’t* like them, and you don’t care who knows it.)

    Which…fine. In theory. But “Will you be my date for this dance?” has a whole layer of romantic meaning that “Will you come to my birthday party?” doesn’t; buried in that layer, like vile raisins (and raisins are pretty damn vile to begin with) are all kinds of issues re: male entitlement and men asking and ugh; and it’s just no good.

  10. Juliana says

    Every time I hear more on these stupid anti abortion measures, I just get a little more scared. I mean, until a couple months ago I didn’t really read much about laws (can’t vote yet, so I wasn’t under the impression it affected me that much), and now I feel really disillusioned. Where I grew up, you pretty much hear “oh, in America everyone has rights and we’re so great” but you miss the huge astrik on the end.

    Ugh. Sorry if this is rambly; this whole thing is really getting to me.

  11. Daydreamer says

    Okay, about that Cracked article: when I sent that link in, I hadn’t yet read very far into the article–I submitted the link to it while it still looked like it had some promise. From now on, I’ll read things through completely before I send them in.

    Somewhere in that pathetic stream of mewling excuses are a few good points that could, and should, have been expounded upon: The same images that tell girls they must live up to impossible standards also tell boys that they should expect girls to do so. There is money to be made both in nostalgia for an age that never was, and in power fantasies; when these are mixed together and sold to men, the message sent is that they should strip away the gains that women have made and prevent them from making new ones so that they can live up to their own impossible standards.

    Of course, whether or not a guy actually BUYS this tripe depends on whether or not he thinks for himself about who he is and what he does to people through his thoughts, words and deeds–which is essential to being a real man and not just a boy who’s older than 18.

  12. says

    A number of people submitted the Cracked article, and most noted it had some issues, but they felt it was worth reading for various reasons. Links here are not endorsements – sometimes we even post very controversial links in a “see what we have to deal with” sort of way.

    Isabel C.,

    Miss Manners is thinking of dates as a thing that, at their worst, are really boring and awkward. I personally think of dates as things that could end in rape. I had narrowly avoided two assaults by the age of 10, so I was more aware than most, I guess. So I take orders to date people I don’t like as “Why don’t you expand your odds of getting raped?” Like I’m not taking enough risk when I date men who seem nice, but may not be. Well, fuck that shit.

  13. says


    I think your last paragraph is perhaps a bit strong. While I encourage everyone (regardless of gender) to think for themselves and not buy into the popular media and social messages regarding gender norms…the fact is that a lot of people, male and female, are heavily influenced by them.

    If we acknowledge that women are affected by them (for instance, as shown in that math/science link), I feel we should also accept that men are affected by them as well…definitely for the worse. But while I don’t wish to excuse this behavior on the part of men (since plenty are able to ignore or get past these social influences)…if we dub all men who are affected by them “boys over the age of 18” or “not real men”, are women who let social influences tell them they can’t succeed at math, or that they need to hold themselves to an unrealistic standard of beauty “girls over the age of 18”?

    I realize there is a (perhaps very important) difference…women are influenced as to how they should think about themselves, and men are influenced as to how they should think about others (women). I also realize that as a man, I have some privilege here. But I think realizing that it’s not so easy for a boy raised with certain social expectations to simply discard them all at the age of 18 is important…we (as a culture) need to stop training boys this way, rather than simply expect them to ignore everything they were taught. It would be nice if the latter would happen, but I don’t know if it’s realistic.

  14. Casey says

    I must say, that Cracked article was simultaneously infuriating and (kind of) enlightening. As I read along it made me think back to one of Jennifer’s posts on here about how male sexuality (as it’s socially constructed) is all about just fucking over everyone and everything and OH WELL WE JUST CAN’T HELP IT~! ‘Cuz that’s the vibe I got from it, especially at the end with the (IMO) dismissive “Sorry ladies~” I also got a bit of side-eye when they explained how OMG MEN DOMINATE EVERYTHING -FOR- YOU, WE JUST FEEL SO INSECURE AND POWERLESS~! It didn’t seem like they were saying “THIS IS BAD AND SHOULD BE STOPPED” as much as “THIS IS BAD AND OH WHAT A SHAME?”

  15. Casey says

    Sorry for the double-post, but also…all the stuff they were wanking about in that Cracked article about getting in trouble for wetting yourself, exposing yourself to strangers and lighting things on fire…I DID ALL THAT TOO. As a matter of fact, I look upon attractive members of the opposite sex with resentment as well.

    Does that make me an honorary man? *eyeroll*

  16. Daydreamer says


    Fair point. It’s just frustrating when I see (and on the Internet, read) so many men accepting this kind of stuff without question. Finding a form of masculinity that is at peace with feminism is a cause of mine, and it seems that I, too, need to think more before I accept something.

  17. MaggieCat says

    It’s also pretty standard for laparoscopic surgeries. Since the surgeon is actually operating from a camera feed on a screen, it just makes sense to hit ‘Record’. I think it’s also slightly more common at teaching hospitals. It’s not like “Ooo, a bowel resection. I’ll go make popcorn!” 😉

    Which is why my mother was able to force loads of people to watch her gallbladder removal from the early ’90s until either I or my dad “accidentally” taped over it (I also remember my dad mentioning at the time that he was glad they didn’t do that when he had his kidney transplant back in ’86, although that obviously wasn’t laparoscopic) and last year I got to explain that I did not have any desire to see film of my emergency appendectomy.

  18. says

    I feel like the Cracked article is like a Feminism 099 class – “remedial feminism”, if you will. Because they spend so much time wanking over pussy power (if you’ll pardon the pun) but at least they’re using that time to point out there’s a person attached to that pussy. And I think some people could use that article as a springboard into some deeper thinking.

    Honestly, as bad as it is, it’s ahead of the curve for pop culture.

  19. says

    MaggieCat: It’s not like “Ooo, a bowel resection. I’ll go make popcorn!” 😉


    Re: the Womanist Musings link. I love how Mr. Honky feels “emasculated” by not being allowed to use a word (the N word) that black men are allowed to use. He thinks black men are being allowed something he’s being denied, so that makes him less of a man. Wow.

    Re: thin women. The idea of banning models with low BMIs misses the point. It punishes women who may naturally fall low on that (total bullshit) scale instead of punishing the people who set unrealistic expectations about size.

    The abortion clinic landlord: awesome! Great tactic.

  20. Casey says

    I’m in a bad mood so I’m going to wank some more.

    RE the Mary Sue link: it was a good article but after a while the comment thread got so obnoxious between “BAWW FUCK THESE PHONEY POSEURS, THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO BEAT ME UP IN HIGH SCHOOL EXPLOITING MY HOBBIES” to men (and it’s mostly men) saying “BAWWW HDU PLAY THE RAPE CARD, FALSE EQUIVALENCE, WHY CAN’T WE JUST DROP GENDER FROM THE DISCUSSION!?”

  21. MaggieCat says

    Jennifer Kesler,
    Glad to have amused you. :-)

    Although on second thought, I recall several classmates having that reaction when they found out they were making us watch film of open heart surgery in 6th grade science class. But I think they were outnumbered by the people who took the option to have their parents write notes excusing them to the library for the hour.

    I just remembered a surgical thing I did think was creepy: when they pieced my ankle back together, the anesthesiologist gave me the option of general sedation or a spinal block that would allow me to stay awake and watch the procedure. My mother and I immediately started laughing so hard that everyone in pre-op was staring at us. As usual.

    WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT THAT? Why would I want to see let alone hear someone cut open my leg and put a metal plate and a dozen screws into my bones?

  22. Alara Rogers says


    WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT THAT? Why would I want to see let alone hear someone cut open my leg and put a metal plate and a dozen screws into my bones?

    I would.

    I strongly dislike general anesthesia. The last time I had it, it made me lose time — I cannot actually remember anything after getting on the surgical table, but I didn’t have an IV in me or a mask on my face at the time, so the whole part about *being* anesthetized is gone. I also am always aware of the fact that people can die under general and that if your anesthesiologist is a fuck-up, a minor surgery will kill you.

    I also am really fascinated by the human body, and I’m a control freak and I want to know what’s going on. I was actually quite ticked off that they wouldn’t let me watch my own c-section, both because I really wanted to see it, and because it made me a lot more frightened and upset to know that people were doing stuff to me behind a curtain that I could barely feel because of the local anesthesia — and of course I wouldn’t have *not* wanted the local, I don’t enjoy being cut open any more than anyone else does, but it meant I could feel that *something* was happening but not what, and it drove me nuts.

    So if I’d been given the choice, yes, I would have taken the spinal block, and I would have watched the procedure.

  23. says

    I’ve just asked myself, “If banning very skinny models isn’t the answer, how DO lawmakers go about changing an industry in which only women who have severely disordered body habits OR that rare group that’s naturally that skinny can find employment?” And I’m not sure. I have to admit, when I come at it from that perspective, I have a little more sympathy for their position. I still think it’s wrong in terms of my ideals, but what about the practicality? How do we create recreate modeling so that even someone like Nigella Lawson would be considered acceptable, let alone, say, a person who’s a natural big-boned size 12 or bigger at her healthy weight?

    What about a “diversity” rule – that they must have an even distribution of sizes in every show? The problem there is that you can’t include naturally skinny women without also including unnaturally skinny ones, and unless the whole fashion world passes and enforces this rule, there will still be considerable enticement to be super-skinny. And people who are already engaged in disordered eating do not think clearly or exercise good judgment, so we can’t rely on the assumption they will all think, “Thank goodness I can finally return to my healthy weight and still work.”

    What we need is for supermodel work to be given to women who are at healthy weights. I’m not sure it’s something the law can mandate.

  24. Ara says

    Jennifer Kesler,

    There was a season of America’s Next Top Model (I don’t watch it but when I was in high school everybody else in the dorm did so I kind of got stuck with it) where one of them was determined to be the first high-level plus-size supermodel. I don’t actually like that show, but I liked her– and of course the judges kept saying in their little conference room that it was good she was so determined but there was no way she was going to make it because there’s not enough people actually willing to hire plus-size models.

  25. says

    Jennifer Kesler,

    I’ve never paid much attention to fashion magazines, but I’ve bought pattern magazines over many many years (sewing mostly but some knitting as well), and while those women are generally on the slim side, they are not super skinny because then you couldn’t see how the clothing (designed for regular women) actually works. I think the problem with catwalk/designer fashion is that the clothes are meant to inspire rather than actually be worn, so the clothes themselves are the problem. If they were designing real clothes for real* women (e.g. catalogue or sewing patterns) they’d have to hire women with more average figures.

    *I don’t mean that models aren’t real women, but that the clothes are not meant to be worn by women in real life, so the models act as mannequins or clothes hangers rather than as female models, and are hired for their ability to do that, and that includes not having any bumpy curves that mess with the draping.

  26. says


    Small correction. SOME of the women in mags ARE emaciated, with Photoshop smoothing away the marks of that emaciation to make them look merely slim. You’re correct that the runway is the primary problem – but that’s also where the big bucks come from, so whatever the runway demands is what many models are going to shoot for.

  27. says

    Jennifer Kesler,

    Do you mean fashion magazines, catalogues, or pattern magazines like Burda or Butterick? I don’t remember ever seeing anyone emaciated in pattern magazines (except maybe Vogue Patterns, but even there I think they’re just thin), but I have in fashion magazines like Vogue, where they’re selling a look rather than a particular item of clothing, and you can’t tell from the photo how the garment is actually constructed because that’s not the point.

    Or are you saying I can never tell because of Photoshop?

  28. Patrick McGraw says


    I have a phobia of anesthesia awareness, and I expect many other people do as well. My recall has generally gone as far as having the mask put on me and being told to count backwards.

    The recording of surgeries never seemed strange to me, both for educational purposes (my transplant was done at a university hospital) and as valuable evidence in case something goes wrong. Being offered a DVD of my surgery was quite bizarre, though. (My cousin actually accepted hers. She watched it once while still heavily medicated and didn’t remember much, so she tried watching it again a month later and had to stop 30 seconds after pressing play.)

  29. Patrick McGraw says

    Jennifer Kesler,

    I think patients usually have to sign something saying they can. You may not NOTICE you’re signing it, but I believe they do have to have your permission.

    The “permission to record and use for educational purposes” part was was pointed out to me each time signed paperwork before I underwent surgery.

  30. says


    I agree, and that seems to be typical of Mary Sue’s commenters on gender-related topics. The article she references in her opening paragraph was a similar clusterfuck of women saying they’d been ostracized for their gender, and men rushing to ‘splain it was all in their delusional, female brains. I even used that comment thread as an example when I blogged about women not being accepted in geek communities.

    But the comment in this thread that really made me stop and stare was Texty saying geekhood is defined by bullying. Which is an interesting definition of geekhood, but more importantly: why would you assume girls and women don’t get bullied or ostracized for liking weird things? In a thread filled with women sharing their experiences of bullying and ostracization both from non-geeks and from male geeks? That is an odd mentality, to support a fake geek girl meme by saying all True Geeks are bullied. Yes? And? Girls are bullied too.

    I like what Dawn McCoy said on the subject: “I think the reason women are portrayed as overemotional is because there’s so many darn people being dumbasses to us.”

  31. Casey says

    Sylvia Sybil,

    It’s such an odd coincidence that after reading that article, a bunch of people on a forum I lurk on start invoking the ZOMG GEEK GURLZZZ!?!? NO WAI SHE’S A POSEUR meme: (things don’t really get going ’til maybe the second or third page, they even invoke the “YOU’RE NOT A TRUE GEEK UNLESS YOU’VE GOT ENCYCLOPEDIC KNOWLEDGE OF [insert arbitrary geek thing here]” trope

  32. says


    I meant fashion mags. Other than that, I don’t know, but I would guess catalogs are more genuine, just because Photoshopping costs money and catalogs are given away for free.

    Patrick McGraw, good! It wasn’t pointed out to a friend of mine once. She noticed it herself, and the doctor was perfectly happy to scratch that bit out of the agreement, but they certainly didn’t highlight it at all. (Then again, he said they didn’t film most of these surgeries – it was a minor and common one, as surgeries go.)

    Sylvia Sybil: I like what Dawn McCoy said on the subject: “I think the reason women are portrayed as overemotional is because there’s so many darn people being dumbasses to us.”

    That’s awesome. I guess also that if you can’t relate to someone’s reasons for being upset/angry/hostile, you assume their feelings are unjustified. And if it never happens to people like you, you’re not going to relate immediately, if ever.

  33. MaggieCat says

    Alara Rogers,
    Patrick McGraw,
    Oops. Sorry! I don’t think I could even watch someone else’s orthopedic surgery — the sound of bone doing things bone should not do is too much for me.

    I am a control freak with an anesthesia awareness phobia, but for me that’s why it’s better for me to be unconscious, which is probably why I didn’t think before making such a sweeping statement. After 17 years of being a frequent flier at all the nearby hospitals (ER nurses often recognize me) I’ve suffered my fair share of screw-ups, which is why for several years they had to hit me with tranquilizers before they could do anything at all because even saying the word ‘i.v.’ was enough to trigger a massive panic attack. When you reach the point where you can set off alarms on the monitors because they suggested the wrong word (like ‘prednisone’) and made your heart rate and blood pressure skyrocket, it’s far less traumatic to me to be completely unconscious.

    When an anesthesiologist I’d seen more than once told me I have a tendency to semi-wake about halfway through I wasn’t sure whether to yell at him for planting that picture in my head or thank him for being honest so I can warn everybody else. (Luckily he told me that after a *non*-surgical procedure done under general because adequate pain management is pretty much impossible due to my tolerance for meds.)

  34. Quib says

    Jennifer Kesler,

    I wonder if some kind of oversight for the health of models could be effective. I don’t know how consistently the consequences of starvation manifest themselves, and that approach would target specific models rather than the people hiring them, but I don’t think we can get around modeling opportunities selecting for exceptional bodies, and making starvation no longer a viable strategy for getting ahead, might be a step in the right direction.

    The big problem with the Cracked article is that it falters between critiquing a perspective, and using it. I can definitely believe men feel like that success with women is something they spend their whole lives striving for but never accomplish, but the article falls down on not clearly recognizing it as a stupid, mythical, cultural meme, and not “because nature!”.
    I’m still kind of glad to see a, largely dude-centric, comedy site even beginning to engage with the topic.

    I’m a little curious at the “watch a video of an abortion before you get one” comment getting as much attention as it is. Not that it isn’t awful and ignorant, but as far as I can tell, it isn’t connected to a proposition, and there so much terrible stuff being put out that actually is at risk of becoming law out here.
    I forget what’s been mentioned on Hathor specifically, but there’s “let employers decide if women taking BC should keep there jobs”(‘cept for the part where it’s still illegal on federal level) there’s the “let’s protect doctors who knowingly lie patients, so long as they were thinking about stopping an abortion” bill, also at leas one fun No abortions after 20 weeks bill

    It’s also appalling how the pro-life side seems to want to make laws for ideological reasons based on how they want things to be, and not with any consideration for how things are and how laws would effect real people. Like your “arrest grandma” link. Teenagers should have parents who care about them, and will act in their best interest when it comes their health, so lets not even pretend like we know that’s not always the case.

  35. says


    Health oversight would probably be an ideal solution, but the problem is: how do we measure health? Many doctors fall into the “is skinny=must be healthy=I don’t need to run tests” trap, and also the “is fat=must have diabetes and stuff=will run endless tests and go into denial when they come back indicating good health” trap. BMI is crap. The idea of a healthy weight doesn’t always take into account muscle weight, skeleton weight… hell, I’m waiting for ANYBODY in medicine to notice how much breasts weigh, because a big pair can weigh 20 pounds or more. So two women of the same height, build and weight, where one has A cups and the other is very big, could be 20 pounds apart in weight for no reason other than how her breasts are made. (And no, they do NOT necessarily gain and lose fat on everybody. Mine have never varied with my weight fluctuations. They just are the size they are.)

    The abortion stuff is just like time travelers have arrived from the Dark Ages to set things right. Some of these ideas are spectacularly bizarre, and the majority of voters don’t support any of it.

  36. Patrick McGraw says


    That’s one of the scariest things about anesthesia awareness to me. Being anxious and afraid about it makes it MORE likely to occur. Like it wasn’t already hard enough to control my panic attacks.

  37. Casey says

    LOL, somebody with more inane arbitrary definitions of what constitutes a geek just told me that because I don’t get into heated debates with other people about my hobby/tv show/vidya of choice that doesn’t make me a geek, I’m “only a fan” (BUT THERE’S TOTES NO SHAME IN THAT!). He also told me that liking sci-fi/fantasy/other geeky things doesn’t automatically mean I’m geeky but I DO “have good taste”. ROFL *eyeroll*

  38. Quib says

    Jennifer Kesler,

    I’m not a doctor, and I don’t know that this wouldn’t just be pointlessly invasive, but what I had in mind was more screenings for specific markers of malnutrition and (extreme) unhealthy eating, than an over all health assessment.

  39. says

    Quib, right, I get what you’re saying. The problem is, how do we enforce it? I would be against stopping models from working until they’re healthier, because that punishes the models. If you do something to their employers, well, how do you determine which employer is at fault? So, it couldn’t be a “meet these standard or X happens” type of law. It would have to be more like the govt assigning and oversight committee and expecting to see (a) improvement in the health of models from when the program first starts and (b) evidence that the industry itself is encouraging models to be healthy (by hiring women of varying sizes, and maybe even by educating them on health). It just all gets difficult when you try to put a quantitative measurement on it, and of course leaving it more subjective isn’t necessarily helpful either.

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