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	<title>Comments on: Nobody knows anything, but don&#8217;t tell the financiers</title>
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	<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/nobody-knows-anything-but-dont-tell-the-financiers/</link>
	<description>the search for good women characters</description>
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		<title>By: How to use circular logic to back up your bias &#124; the Hathor Legacy</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/nobody-knows-anything-but-dont-tell-the-financiers/comment-page-1/#comment-89023</link>
		<dc:creator>How to use circular logic to back up your bias &#124; the Hathor Legacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 16:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=1234#comment-89023</guid>
		<description>[...] were not successful. Except for the ones that were, but they don&#8217;t count because they were just flukes. Therefore, we cannot make mainstream (read: &#8220;non-chick-flick&#8221;) movies featuring women [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] were not successful. Except for the ones that were, but they don&#8217;t count because they were just flukes. Therefore, we cannot make mainstream (read: &#8220;non-chick-flick&#8221;) movies featuring women [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Kesler</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/nobody-knows-anything-but-dont-tell-the-financiers/comment-page-1/#comment-86003</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Kesler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=1234#comment-86003</guid>
		<description>Dr. Science, thanks. I&#039;ve been talking to AmIReal about what Hathor can do for her objective. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Science, thanks. I&#8217;ve been talking to AmIReal about what Hathor can do for her objective. <img src='http://thehathorlegacy.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: On quitting film &#124; the Hathor Legacy</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/nobody-knows-anything-but-dont-tell-the-financiers/comment-page-1/#comment-86002</link>
		<dc:creator>On quitting film &#124; the Hathor Legacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=1234#comment-86002</guid>
		<description>[...] And he was one of the ones who wanted change. He just believed all the usual arguments about how the audience wouldn&#8217;t tolerate change. You know, the arguments about how the &#8220;right&#8221; audience wouldn&#8217;t go see a fantastic suspense/sci-fi thriller if it starred Sigourney Weaver instead of some dude, and so on and so forth. You know the examples we&#8217;ve all named that prove the dominant theories imperfect, at the very least. They were always dismissed as non-recurring phenomena. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] And he was one of the ones who wanted change. He just believed all the usual arguments about how the audience wouldn&#8217;t tolerate change. You know, the arguments about how the &#8220;right&#8221; audience wouldn&#8217;t go see a fantastic suspense/sci-fi thriller if it starred Sigourney Weaver instead of some dude, and so on and so forth. You know the examples we&#8217;ve all named that prove the dominant theories imperfect, at the very least. They were always dismissed as non-recurring phenomena. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Doctor Science</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/nobody-knows-anything-but-dont-tell-the-financiers/comment-page-1/#comment-85964</link>
		<dc:creator>Doctor Science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 18:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=1234#comment-85964</guid>
		<description>You may be interested in &lt;a href=&quot;http://amireal.livejournal.com/803064.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this discussion about making TPTB more aware of women as a demographic&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may be interested in <a href="http://amireal.livejournal.com/803064.html" rel="nofollow">this discussion about making TPTB more aware of women as a demographic</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Kesler</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/nobody-knows-anything-but-dont-tell-the-financiers/comment-page-1/#comment-85962</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Kesler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=1234#comment-85962</guid>
		<description>Jack, it&#039;s my understanding that the big companies who own the studios don&#039;t make money by risking it on movies - they make it by getting others to risk it on movies. That&#039;s the advantage of being a middle man - someone pays you, and before you have to pay the money back, you get to both invest it (even a day&#039;s interest on millions being quite a return) and hopefully profit on it.

I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if a lot of the financiers are people who are very much part of the industry/corp conglomerate, which may be what you mean. But as far as I know, the studios don&#039;t dip into coffers they perceive as their own very often, which means they&#039;re still in a middleman position, which means their task is not to decide what&#039;s worth a risk, but to decide what they can convince someone else to risk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack, it&#8217;s my understanding that the big companies who own the studios don&#8217;t make money by risking it on movies &#8211; they make it by getting others to risk it on movies. That&#8217;s the advantage of being a middle man &#8211; someone pays you, and before you have to pay the money back, you get to both invest it (even a day&#8217;s interest on millions being quite a return) and hopefully profit on it.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if a lot of the financiers are people who are very much part of the industry/corp conglomerate, which may be what you mean. But as far as I know, the studios don&#8217;t dip into coffers they perceive as their own very often, which means they&#8217;re still in a middleman position, which means their task is not to decide what&#8217;s worth a risk, but to decide what they can convince someone else to risk.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Ketch</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/nobody-knows-anything-but-dont-tell-the-financiers/comment-page-1/#comment-85960</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Ketch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 22:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=1234#comment-85960</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure the studios are actually distinct from the financiers in any meaningful way; with the &quot;big 6&quot; all subsidiaries of global-scale conglomerates like General Electric and News Corp. I suspect that the people in charge think of movies merely as product. I doubt there&#039;s any real desire on the part of the studio executives to be making different movies, from which they are prevented by the (perceived) inability to pitch those projects to the financiers; I think the studio heads themselves are indifferent to what movies get made beyond the ROI projections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure the studios are actually distinct from the financiers in any meaningful way; with the &#8220;big 6&#8243; all subsidiaries of global-scale conglomerates like General Electric and News Corp. I suspect that the people in charge think of movies merely as product. I doubt there&#8217;s any real desire on the part of the studio executives to be making different movies, from which they are prevented by the (perceived) inability to pitch those projects to the financiers; I think the studio heads themselves are indifferent to what movies get made beyond the ROI projections.</p>
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		<title>By: &#8220;A movie people didn&#8217;t know they wanted to see&#8221; &#171; don&#8217;t ya wish your girlfriend was smart like me?</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/nobody-knows-anything-but-dont-tell-the-financiers/comment-page-1/#comment-85855</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8220;A movie people didn&#8217;t know they wanted to see&#8221; &#171; don&#8217;t ya wish your girlfriend was smart like me?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=1234#comment-85855</guid>
		<description>[...] Read the whole thing here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Read the whole thing here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Kesler</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/nobody-knows-anything-but-dont-tell-the-financiers/comment-page-1/#comment-85799</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Kesler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 15:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=1234#comment-85799</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I wonder if it means that no-one actually knows what makes a movie or TV show work, so there’s no moderately objective measure of talent and probable success — or if it’s a side effect of the huge number trying to get into the industry, that the only way insiders can filter the people trying to get in the door is to look only at friends of friends.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think it&#039;s both. I&#039;ve seen how agents get flooded with more query letters than they can possibly read - even with unpaid interns to do the reading - so they resort to throwing out some unread, randomly. Naturally, when you have a stack of query letters up to the rafters and someone you know and respect recommends a friend, you go for the friend.

But another problem is that the only quantified method - which has been disputed as ridiculous for years - is to go by whatever the person&#039;s last movie made as a benchmark for what the next one will make. It doesn&#039;t work because it ignores so many factors (do movies with top actors/directors/writers keep doing well because of those individuals, or because of the great marketing campaigns their films get on the assumption they&#039;ll more than pay it back, or is it simply that those individuals pick good projects?), but additionally it creates barriers for people entering the business who have no stats to make investors want to risk a movie on them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I wonder if it means that no-one actually knows what makes a movie or TV show work, so there’s no moderately objective measure of talent and probable success — or if it’s a side effect of the huge number trying to get into the industry, that the only way insiders can filter the people trying to get in the door is to look only at friends of friends.</p></blockquote>
<p>I think it&#8217;s both. I&#8217;ve seen how agents get flooded with more query letters than they can possibly read &#8211; even with unpaid interns to do the reading &#8211; so they resort to throwing out some unread, randomly. Naturally, when you have a stack of query letters up to the rafters and someone you know and respect recommends a friend, you go for the friend.</p>
<p>But another problem is that the only quantified method &#8211; which has been disputed as ridiculous for years &#8211; is to go by whatever the person&#8217;s last movie made as a benchmark for what the next one will make. It doesn&#8217;t work because it ignores so many factors (do movies with top actors/directors/writers keep doing well because of those individuals, or because of the great marketing campaigns their films get on the assumption they&#8217;ll more than pay it back, or is it simply that those individuals pick good projects?), but additionally it creates barriers for people entering the business who have no stats to make investors want to risk a movie on them.</p>
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		<title>By: Doctor Science</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/nobody-knows-anything-but-dont-tell-the-financiers/comment-page-1/#comment-85798</link>
		<dc:creator>Doctor Science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=1234#comment-85798</guid>
		<description>Jennifer:

Yes, I&#039;d noticed that Hollywood is extremely nepotistic, to the point of being more aristocratic than capitalistic. I don&#039;t know if there&#039;s any other way to explain why Jon Peters continues to have power &amp; influence.

I don&#039;t really understand why  an industry that so many people are absolutely desperate to get into should be nepotistic -- surely they *should* be able to take only the most talented people. I wonder if it means that no-one actually knows what makes a movie or TV show work, so there&#039;s no moderately objective measure of talent and probable success -- or if it&#039;s a side effect of the huge number trying to get into the industry, that the only way insiders can filter the people trying to get in the door is to look only at friends of friends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jennifer:</p>
<p>Yes, I&#8217;d noticed that Hollywood is extremely nepotistic, to the point of being more aristocratic than capitalistic. I don&#8217;t know if there&#8217;s any other way to explain why Jon Peters continues to have power &amp; influence.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t really understand why  an industry that so many people are absolutely desperate to get into should be nepotistic &#8212; surely they *should* be able to take only the most talented people. I wonder if it means that no-one actually knows what makes a movie or TV show work, so there&#8217;s no moderately objective measure of talent and probable success &#8212; or if it&#8217;s a side effect of the huge number trying to get into the industry, that the only way insiders can filter the people trying to get in the door is to look only at friends of friends.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Kesler</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/nobody-knows-anything-but-dont-tell-the-financiers/comment-page-1/#comment-85761</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Kesler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=1234#comment-85761</guid>
		<description>Doctor Science, I agree that stupidity can be a factor. There&#039;s an amazing amount of nepotism in film - far more than in any other industry I&#039;m aware of. When enough people get hired for who they know instead of what they know... they may or may not be underqualified (or stupid) but at the very least the industry will suffer for lack of diverse thinking and new ideas.

I also still believe &lt;a href=&quot;http://thehathorlegacy.com/why-discriminate-if-it-doesnt-profit/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ego &lt;/a&gt;is a big factor. Practically, they want to convince investors their money will be safe. But film has always attracted people who have huge egos, and their attitudes filter down and shape the culture of the industry, making it hard for people who have a healthy self-image to compete. Hmm, this may also be part of what drives Hollywood to work to make women neurotic with body shame - shaming others is a favored tool in the arsenal of the ego-obsessed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doctor Science, I agree that stupidity can be a factor. There&#8217;s an amazing amount of nepotism in film &#8211; far more than in any other industry I&#8217;m aware of. When enough people get hired for who they know instead of what they know&#8230; they may or may not be underqualified (or stupid) but at the very least the industry will suffer for lack of diverse thinking and new ideas.</p>
<p>I also still believe <a href="http://thehathorlegacy.com/why-discriminate-if-it-doesnt-profit/" rel="nofollow">ego </a>is a big factor. Practically, they want to convince investors their money will be safe. But film has always attracted people who have huge egos, and their attitudes filter down and shape the culture of the industry, making it hard for people who have a healthy self-image to compete. Hmm, this may also be part of what drives Hollywood to work to make women neurotic with body shame &#8211; shaming others is a favored tool in the arsenal of the ego-obsessed.</p>
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