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	<title>Comments on: Open thread: heteronormativity&#8217;s effects on all women and men</title>
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	<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/open-thread-heteronormativitys-effects-on-all-women-and-men/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 05 Sep 2010 15:23:53 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Kesler</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/open-thread-heteronormativitys-effects-on-all-women-and-men/#comment-94249</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Kesler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 04:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=3099#comment-94249</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll second that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll second that!</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick McGraw</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/open-thread-heteronormativitys-effects-on-all-women-and-men/#comment-94247</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick McGraw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 02:53:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=3099#comment-94247</guid>
		<description>Speaking of crap science making itself into the public consciousness, I fairly recently learned that nearly all of the zoological &quot;knowledge&quot; about wolf sociology is complete bollocks. All of that &quot;alpha, beta, omega&quot; stuff? Dominance challenges? Wolves preventing other wolves from mating?

All of this was based on studying groups of wolves &lt;i&gt;in captivity&lt;/i&gt;. It&#039;s the equivalent of basing all of your knowledge of a human culture by studying their prison populations. It tells us nothing about how they live, organize, and sustain themselves when able to make these decisions themselves. Most importantly, the decision to just &lt;i&gt;leave&lt;/i&gt;. Apparently, when wolves have the ability to leave and form their own packs, none of that &quot;scientifically observed&quot; wolf pack behavior happens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of crap science making itself into the public consciousness, I fairly recently learned that nearly all of the zoological &#8220;knowledge&#8221; about wolf sociology is complete bollocks. All of that &#8220;alpha, beta, omega&#8221; stuff? Dominance challenges? Wolves preventing other wolves from mating?</p>
<p>All of this was based on studying groups of wolves <i>in captivity</i>. It&#8217;s the equivalent of basing all of your knowledge of a human culture by studying their prison populations. It tells us nothing about how they live, organize, and sustain themselves when able to make these decisions themselves. Most importantly, the decision to just <i>leave</i>. Apparently, when wolves have the ability to leave and form their own packs, none of that &#8220;scientifically observed&#8221; wolf pack behavior happens.</p>
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		<title>By: MarinaS</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/open-thread-heteronormativitys-effects-on-all-women-and-men/#comment-94244</link>
		<dc:creator>MarinaS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 23:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=3099#comment-94244</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s rape apology, pure and simple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s rape apology, pure and simple.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Kesler</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/open-thread-heteronormativitys-effects-on-all-women-and-men/#comment-94242</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Kesler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=3099#comment-94242</guid>
		<description>No, it&#039;s totally creepy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, it&#8217;s totally creepy.</p>
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		<title>By: Mei Ling</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/open-thread-heteronormativitys-effects-on-all-women-and-men/#comment-94240</link>
		<dc:creator>Mei Ling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=3099#comment-94240</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I don&#039;t mind watching over kids, and I&#039;m not &quot;bad&quot; at it, but I can&#039;t see myself marrying/having kids in the future.

Cue the sexual apocalypse. &gt;.&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I don&#8217;t mind watching over kids, and I&#8217;m not &#8220;bad&#8221; at it, but I can&#8217;t see myself marrying/having kids in the future.</p>
<p>Cue the sexual apocalypse. &gt;.&gt;</p>
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		<title>By: Tess</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/open-thread-heteronormativitys-effects-on-all-women-and-men/#comment-90863</link>
		<dc:creator>Tess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=3099#comment-90863</guid>
		<description>A bit off topic, and sorry if someone already mentioned this, but am i he only one here who was creeped out by the &quot;Guys like Greg can’t help themselves&quot; line?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A bit off topic, and sorry if someone already mentioned this, but am i he only one here who was creeped out by the &#8220;Guys like Greg can’t help themselves&#8221; line?</p>
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		<title>By: eibhear</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/open-thread-heteronormativitys-effects-on-all-women-and-men/#comment-89850</link>
		<dc:creator>eibhear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=3099#comment-89850</guid>
		<description>Pocket Nerd,
Excellent reply! I&#039;ll have to remember that one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pocket Nerd,<br />
Excellent reply! I&#8217;ll have to remember that one.</p>
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		<title>By: Athena Andreadis</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/open-thread-heteronormativitys-effects-on-all-women-and-men/#comment-89833</link>
		<dc:creator>Athena Andreadis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=3099#comment-89833</guid>
		<description>The documentary sounds totally off on its science.  Tarzanism is only evoked by people who are ignorant (or dislike) findings that disagree with their status quo opinions.  In addition to Gould, I strongly recommend Sarah Blaffer Hrdy&#039;s groundbreaking books:

The Woman that Never Evolved
Mother Nature: A History of Mothers, Infants and Natural Selection
Mothers and Others: The Evolutionary Origins of Mutual Understanding</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The documentary sounds totally off on its science.  Tarzanism is only evoked by people who are ignorant (or dislike) findings that disagree with their status quo opinions.  In addition to Gould, I strongly recommend Sarah Blaffer Hrdy&#8217;s groundbreaking books:</p>
<p>The Woman that Never Evolved<br />
Mother Nature: A History of Mothers, Infants and Natural Selection<br />
Mothers and Others: The Evolutionary Origins of Mutual Understanding</p>
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		<title>By: Pocket Nerd</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/open-thread-heteronormativitys-effects-on-all-women-and-men/#comment-89799</link>
		<dc:creator>Pocket Nerd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=3099#comment-89799</guid>
		<description>@Jennifer Kesler:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;It’s perfectly natural to hit people when they annoy you, yet most of humanity has made a conscious choice to curb that urge in favor of cooperation.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Heh. My usual response to whines that one can&#039;t fight instinct is &quot;it&#039;s instinctual to soil yourself the moment you feel the urge to urinate, but I outgrew that when I was a toddler. How about you?&quot;

&lt;i&gt;&quot;The problem here is, we send men and women many conflicting messages about what sexual behavior will be punished and tolerated, and why, and by who.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Exactly. And even in these dopey crapumentaries, you still see male privilege at work. How many times have you heard TV shows promote smug explanations of why it&#039;s natural women should cuckold their husbands? After all, there are biological incentives for that, as well... (This is linked to the notoriously shabby standards of science reporting in general, another of my bêtes noires.)

I highly recommend Stephen Jay Gould&#039;s &lt;i&gt;The Mismeasure of Man&lt;/i&gt; to anybody with an interest in biology. It contains excellent examples of how easily preconceptions can shape the results of research. Peer review helps mitigate this problem, but it&#039;s easier to overturn the false assumptions of a single scientist than of an entire culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jennifer Kesler:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;It’s perfectly natural to hit people when they annoy you, yet most of humanity has made a conscious choice to curb that urge in favor of cooperation.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Heh. My usual response to whines that one can&#8217;t fight instinct is &#8220;it&#8217;s instinctual to soil yourself the moment you feel the urge to urinate, but I outgrew that when I was a toddler. How about you?&#8221;</p>
<p><i>&#8220;The problem here is, we send men and women many conflicting messages about what sexual behavior will be punished and tolerated, and why, and by who.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Exactly. And even in these dopey crapumentaries, you still see male privilege at work. How many times have you heard TV shows promote smug explanations of why it&#8217;s natural women should cuckold their husbands? After all, there are biological incentives for that, as well&#8230; (This is linked to the notoriously shabby standards of science reporting in general, another of my bêtes noires.)</p>
<p>I highly recommend Stephen Jay Gould&#8217;s <i>The Mismeasure of Man</i> to anybody with an interest in biology. It contains excellent examples of how easily preconceptions can shape the results of research. Peer review helps mitigate this problem, but it&#8217;s easier to overturn the false assumptions of a single scientist than of an entire culture.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Kesler</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/open-thread-heteronormativitys-effects-on-all-women-and-men/#comment-89797</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Kesler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 04:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/?p=3099#comment-89797</guid>
		<description>@SBG, yer so krrrazy! :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@SBG, yer so krrrazy! <img src='http://thehathorlegacy.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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