NinjaPenguin sent in an amazing link on men asking women to smile more. Quotes from the post:
So here’s the take-home lesson, ladeez. Smile and dress nice and act like a lady – and you will be considered to be a silly, thoughtless, insignificant girl. Don’t smile and dress for comfort and you will be considered to be a ball-busting, man-hating lesbian bull-dyke – or, possibly, Ozzy Ozbourne. You will be called a trope, or a caricature feminist, or a reverse sexist, or a slut, or frigid. You will be said to have fucked too much, or in need of a good fucking, or your problem will lie in the fact that no one wants to fuck you, in which case you need a good fucking but are unlikely to get one. But no matter who you are, and what is wrong with you – because, mark my words, something is ALWAYS wrong with you – there will always be some damn asshat around the corner just waiting to cheerfully insist that you smile, smile, smile!
What I found really interesting about the idea of obligatory smiling is how often I experience it in the context of street harassment – after my husband deployed in July, I couldn’t step outside my apartment without some “helpful” gent suggesting that I smile… because obviously my personal turmoil is less important than my role as a scene-setter in someone else’s glorious summer-time promenade. Perhaps next time I’ll remember to color coordinate with the flowers and brownstones, so that it is truly a perfect day. After all, women aren’t allowed to be the main character in their own stories — me, walking around, thinking my own thoughts and doing my own thing… well, it’s like a prop suddenly realizing that a film about the adventures of Wilhelmina the Light Bulb could be absolutely fascinating. It’s SILLY, it is, and that light bulb? She needs to be reminded that she’s a prop, that her story’s about being the bright light in someone else’s day.
More seriously, though, it’s scary for me when someone tells me to smile. It’s a command, generally from a stranger, and is an attempt to reduce me to an object. It’s also an attempt to force a literally primal kind of submission – primates give an appeasing smile when backing down from a dominant group member, to demonstrate that they are afraid. Plus, this kind of heckling can escalate very quickly.The scariest time actually happened to me a few weeks ago: I was kneeling down to tie my shoes, and this guy leaned out the bus window to take a picture of me. He said, “Smile, big tits!” And then laughed, grinning back at me, like he must’ve just made my day. I called the police, since taking that kind of voyeurism is illegal in the US… but as you’ll see from some of the links I’m including, something being illegal doesn’t mean it’s not acceptable. Being female-bodied means that you cannot assume any reasonable or enforceable expectation of privacy, regardless of whether we’re talking emotions (“Smile! It can’t be THAT bad!”) or physical (“We can’t let women make their own decisions about their bodies!!”) or visual (“If she didn’t want her picture taken, she shouldn’t have gone outside!!!!”). Because sexual harassment like this falls on a spectrum of behaviors where women’s bodies are objectified, Hollaback engages in so many types of activist work not centered on street harassment.
BUT SERIOUSLY, FOLKS, the real victims here are poor straight men, who can’t tell hot chicks they want to bang them. :eyeroll:
Thoughts? Any good come-backs for when someone tells you to smile?
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I used to work in banking and once had a male customer tell me “You must be single because no man wants a woman who doesn’t smile.” I nearly cursed him out, and I told him that I didn’t care about what some man wants, but he didn’t hear me because his attention was already on something else.
Another time I had a man tell me, “Smile, you’re young.” after I frowned at him because he told me that every time he sees me I get more beautiful and beautiful, and I was thinking to myself, like, what is he talking about every time he sees me because I had never seen him before a day in my life.
I once had a male manager who would tell me to smile. He complained that I didn’t talk to the customers. I’ve always been one to focus more on getting the work done rather than chatting people up. He also once told me that I needed to ‘lighten up’.
I get harassed by men on the street so much that it transferred over to how I interact with male customers in my jobs. I always feel apprehensive to wait on them because they will either try to flirt with me or stare me down as I wait on them. I once had a male customer complain about me, but he never actually said if I had done anything wrong. My guess is that he wasn’t too happy with me because I didn’t smile at him.
ALIG83(Quote) (Reply)
“[...]what is he talking about every time he sees me because I had never seen him before a day in my life.”
WHAT IF HE WAS A STALKER!!? O___O
OTL
Casey(Quote) (Reply)
I could only guess that he said that because the bank I worked for was inside of a grocery store, so maybe he saw me there. Or, maybe he has seen me walking in the area because I do not have a car.
I’ve always found it interesting that men who have seen me before interpret it as actually knowing me.
ALIG83(Quote) (Reply)
You know, I’m just feeling compelled to emphasize that don’t think MOST men would interpret it as knowing you. I think most men would interpret it as seeing you every day because your routines cross paths. I think most men would realize how stalkerish it would sound to even mention to a stranger “I see you all the time.”
But sadly, there are a large enough number of men who don’t have proper social boundaries out there to give a woman the impression that “men” interpret seeing you as knowing you. But also, that this is a direct result of male privilege, because if a woman oversteps her boundaries too much, she gets smacked back into them quickly most of the time. But when men do it, no one corrects them, and the targets of their unwanted attention usually feel (speaking for myself, but I think this is general) that giving them a pushback might “provoke” a more dangerous level of interest, so we just take it and hope that’s the extent of it.
Jennifer Kesler(Quote) (Reply)
But a lot of them do interpret it that way. I was on a bus stop once and a man waiting for the bus also, turned to me and asked, “You don’t work at the bank anymore?”. I turned to him and asked him who he was since I had never seen or talked to him before. He replied, “Oh, I know you live in the area and that you work at the bank.” I never bothered to answer his question because he never told me who he was but it seemed that he thought he knew enough about me without actually ever meeting me to ask me such a question.
There are men in my neighborhood who often see me walking, so without them ever knowing anything about me, they offer to give me rides in their car. I’ve even had men approach me in public places to tell me that they have seen me walking before, they tell me where they live and that if I ever need a ride that they will give me one.
One day while I was at work while working in the bank, a man came up to the window and asked me what time did I get off from work. I looked at him and asked him why would he ask me such a thing because we did not know each other. He told me he lived in my neighborhood and that he could give me a ride home. This scenario happens quite a lot. I have lost count the number of times men have offered to give me a ride in their car simply because they have seen me before.
To me, I feel that they think they know me simply because they have seen me before. There are two different men in particular who make it a habit to honk their car horn at me when they pass me on the street. In my opinion, most people with cars honk at people who they know, not strangers.
I have a blog where I write about my experiences with street harassment. You can check it out here: http://therantsandramblingsofapessimist.tumblr.com/
ALIG83(Quote) (Reply)
Oh, yes, I wasn’t arguing against that. What I’m trying to say is that the behavior you’re describing is NOT one prescribed by our culture. Even in romantic comedies, where stalker behavior is often conflated with true love behavior, a man you’ve never seen talking to you like he knows you would be considered weird and potentially worrying. AND YET there are enough men doing it and getting away with it for you to have lots of different experiences with lots of different men. This suggests to me that… well, we have an alarming number of men who have no boundaries and feel entitled to go OUTSIDE cultural boundaries to find methods of interacting with women against their wills.
I think I’m having an off-day and can’t say things well. Did this make any sense?
Jennifer Kesler(Quote) (Reply)
Did any of them even ask you if you prefer walking or did they just assume you’re a helpless person and they should save you that terrible walk home?
And how does this not strike them as inappropriate behavior? Parents always tell kids never to get in cars with strangers. Do they think you somehow magically sense that they’re Just Great Guys Who Want To “Help” and not get that to you they could be incredibly dangerous and life-threatening? Does Not Compute.
The Other Anne(Quote) (Reply)
Yes, that makes sense.
ALIG83(Quote) (Reply)
Of course none of them have ever asked me if I prefer walking. I once had a man pull up next to me and tell me, “Go sit down somewhere, you’re always walking.” I don’t have a car or anything, so how else am I supposed to get around?
I’m sure they don’t think the behavior is inappropriate. It happens to me so much that I think men think it is only normal to offer strange women a ride in their car. You know what? I am twenty-five, but I look about ten years younger. Maybe they think I am a young, naive girl who would jump at the chance of male attention.
ALIG83(Quote) (Reply)
This is my main beef with you. Jo said, “I’m not sure what you mean by “men never do it when there’s other men around”, but I can say I’ve never seen a man be the recipient of the “Smile!” admonition. I’ve never seen a man do that to a group of men and women. I think men *have* to do it when there are other men around, however — how else do the young ones learn to do it? It gets passed on by example, like any other social behavior.”
You said, “I agree with everything you are saying…” You later said, “…I theorize that the “umbrella of ownership” is assumed because of my presence.”
If you had truly acknowledged Jo’s point about ‘a man being there =\= other men not commanding women,’ then you’d have ground to stand on. As is, you’re ignoring someone else’s observation and logical conclusion in favor of your own limited experience (everyone’s is limited, obviously). I can personally say that the only people to ever say that to me were my father and my teachers (though I don’t go out much, and I ‘dress like a guy,’ whatever that means). That doesn’t mean I go about saying that schools and homes are the only commanding places in the world. Sit down, listen, and think before you respond. Make a list of the others’ points if you need it clearly drawn out. Ask for clarification before jumping to conclusions. Listen like you’re expecting us to listen.
On the main topic of this debate- I only agree that we should educate the adults if your definition of the word educate is ‘get strong, intimidating people to tie them to a chair and calmly inform them of their hideous actions, and the consequences for continuing said actions.’ But that’s just me.
Eme(Quote) (Reply)
I am so sorry for this. My dad’s also of the, ‘if they don’t smile they aren’t friendly’ variety. I’m not sure he’s ever complained about it to anyone in charge, but I still can’t go to places with him because of that and other things he’s done… (And yes, there was attempted educating, but it was useless.)
Eme(Quote) (Reply)
I’d have stormed out and never talked to them again. Or told an administrator and demanded an apology from them. Or both. As long as I could do that without being kicked out/forced to pay their rent, of course. God, I hate being unable to do anything but smile.
Eme(Quote) (Reply)
I always get, “You have a beautiful smile; why don’t you smile more?” from my father. Even when he was driving me to the hospital and knew I was in a lot of pain. Or maybe he didn’t- my face normally doesn’t show pain, so I must have been ‘lying’ when I said it hurts- but then why was he driving me in the first place? Probably to appease his little ‘overdramatic princess.’ Oh, well.
From teachers, it was actually in our school policy- you could get penalized for not showing enough ‘school spirit,’ kinda like that one town where it was illegal to smile. (Ref: http://www.pocatello.us/main/smile_pocatello.htm )
I have never met someone who told me to “You should smile!” outside of school and my father, but I don’t go out much and I ‘dress like a guy,’ or so I’m told. If I did, though, I’d probably give them my pissed-off smile and say, “And you should mind your own business!” in the same cheerful tone. But I guess not a lot of people have a pissed-off smile- that may just be my conditioning, there.
Eme(Quote) (Reply)
…illegal to *not* smile.
Typos, I hate them.
Eme(Quote) (Reply)
Wow the language on that page is so obnoxious.
Shaun(Quote) (Reply)
Truly. And I find it quite disturbing that it makes it seem as though the ordinance was harmless or even helpful.
As a thought on good comebacks, one might say, “We’re not in Pocatello,” to a commanding stranger. (I personally would take great pleasure in their possible confusion at this statement.)
Eme(Quote) (Reply)
I don’t get it. Is it supposed to mean something or supposed to be confusing?
Sylvia Sybil(Quote) (Reply)
Uh, above she linked to the City of Pocatello, Idaho website, which has an ordinance making not smiling illegal.
So it both means something (snarkily) and is confusing. Hehe.
sbg(Quote) (Reply)
What, you expect me to remember something for two whole days? I’m a modern consumer, you’re lucky if my attention span lasts fifteen seconds. =P
Seriously, thanks for the reminder.
Sylvia Sybil(Quote) (Reply)
But their Zuko and Mai’s scowlyfaces are part of what make them so cute together!
“I don’t hate you.”
“I don’t hate you either.”
Patrick McGraw(Quote) (Reply)
Maiko all the way, baby!
Attackfish(Quote) (Reply)
I just want to stamp “co-signed” on everything you’ve written here, Sylvia. Apparently I am just a troublingly deep public thinker whose brow furrows threaten social harmony to the point I must be stopped, too. Gets right up my nose, seriously.
ACW(Quote) (Reply)
Made me giggle out loud. Thank you.
It also reminded me of:
Sylvia Sybil(Quote) (Reply)
This is an older comment, but I was just checking up on this post again and laughed out loud. Still the best thing I’ve read all day.
Gena(Quote) (Reply)
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