Open Thread: Obligatory Smiling

Yes, this. I used to get this at work *all the time*, and this explanation makes *so much sense*. Although I still want a good comeback.

Hmmm…my dog died recently and I’m still pretty bummed about it…I wonder how much mileage I could get out of using that as an excuse?

I *HATE* this “smile!” thing, for all the reasons outlined so eloquently above. When I lived in the United States, especially during my early twenties, I got it on average once a week. I used to be extremely unassertive, and would give a sickly half-smile and hate myself for the rest of the day. But the day I went back to work after my mother died, some a**hat told me to “SMILE!” as I walked past him in the street, and, instead of my usual, I snapped. I whirled around, clenched my fists, froze my face in a frightening rictus, fixed him with a death glare, and snarled, “MAKE ME!” in a Darth Vader-esque voice (the voice just kind of came out–it wasn’t planned). He blanched and recoiled. This made me so happy that I not only smiled but laughed, and said “Thanks! It worked!” and went on my way. I snuck one last look at him over my shoulder and he was still standing there, bewildered, scratching his head.

I’m not going to pretend that this is a solution to this pervasive and disgusting problem, but it was SO satisfying that time.

Speaking of prince Zuko, this entry has made me wonder if some of the comments about Mai’s “man face” in fandom might just be her lack of smiling. Flat affect as a masculine trait? (because I really never got what fandom meant by that, except that she stands in the way of their Zutara, but why that insult?)

There just isn’t the education telling men why this isn’t okay.

Catcallers know that they are being jerks– even if they act like it is okay– but these guys don’t necessarily know that what they are doing is asserting that women are common property on display for them.

Emphasis mine.

Men should be involved in gender studies…

The thing is, when you are saying gender issues should be taught to and concerted efforts should be made to educate people on the failings of the heteropatriarchy and its destructive effects, the implication is that while systemic patterns perpetuate flawed cultural beliefs, men functioning within those patterns of abuse (to treat a person as a commodity, to be ordered to behave in a manner more desirable to the commander, as one would order a dog, is abuse) are somehow excluded from or at very least non-participants in or are unaware of “gender studies” (???), which would stop street harassers from behaving in a way they, as you said, know is wrong, because they would then know why they are wrong. This further suggests that in order to eliminate these patterns, education and influence must come from people living outside of those patterns, which, largely, would mean those existing outside of the “norms” of the heteropatriarchy, i.e. women (cis-, trans-, or otherwise queer) and non-heteronormative men.

That’s why Maria said,

For an apology to be real you have to recognize the other person as someone able to be hurt/offended/injured, acknowledge what you did as wrong, and acknowledge that you are capable of doing something wrong. By focusing on men and excusing/explaining their behavior, you’re ignoring women and what they’re describing as an offense.

when you claimed you were being accused of apologism (which is something you brought up in the first place). Making excuses is a different behavior than apologizing.

Besides which, when you say there should be further education on gender studies and gender relations for boys and men (which I agree with for girls and women as well, though that’s neither here nor there), but then mention that catcallers “know that they are being jerks” (which is a learned behavior, and a big reason why there is such an emphasis on teaching children right from wrong and the application of thinly veiled morality plays as children’s entertainment), one wonders where blame (or at least, responsibility for the empathy training in these boys/men) rests at the point of conflict in these boys’/men’s lives when they have to make the decision between treating women as they themselves would want to be treated (i.e. as people) vs. cultural standards for how men are meant to treat women (at minimum as an alien Other, and in many cases, also inferior).

I do think this issue has spiraled a bit, though. Regarding your initial comment, I do understand what you were trying to say about catcalling as “stupid-not-evil” regarding catcallers’ intent in their behavior, however, intent is largely irrelevant when discussing consequences of action– action is material, and intent is immaterial, and largely unspoken. Someone being harassed is not responsible to infer the intent of the person harassing them, nor are they responsible for the gender relations re-education of the harasser. I wouldn’t go so far as to call cultural standards of dominance and ownership “evil” because I don’t like to use that word when referring to real life– there are shades of gray, after all– but it’s definitely not benign, just as hipsters in headdresses aren’t benign because they may not understand the cultural significance of what they’re doing, nor are kids calling each other “retard” or “faggot” as an insult, nor is slut shaming rape survivors (as in the recent case of a gang rape of a pre-teen girl), nor is… etc. etc. These things obviously aren’t necessarily the same amount of “evilness,” but they all function via individuals within a flawed society that “know that they are being jerks” when they make their own choices in their own lives.

Just my 2c.

I think I remember you talking about that in maybe…a Scrubs discussion thread? Didn’t a bunch of lamers try picking you up/asking you to go to bed with them? Or was that someone who worked in a FANCY hotel so all the skeeves thought if they bribed you, you’d do whatever they wanted?[/ick]

I don’t get it either. Seriously. *facepalm*

It’s happened to me before with my old college flatmates, but until I read this comment I just wrote it off as an unusual experience. On reflection though, my relationship with them had a power dynamic to it (I’m thinking of Jennifer’s article on extroversion privilege over at WP). The weirdest thing about my experience was that my refusal to smile on their command once resulted in one of them tickling me, and then getting upset with me when that failed to cheer me up.

If somebody violated my bodily autonomy (even if they’re doing something as “benign” as tickling) I wouldn’t cheer up either. >_<

It was surprisingly difficult to explain that to them. :C

I start having an asthma attack.

Me too.

I’m convinced that any unmoderated space on the internet will, given enough time and commenters, turn into a wasteland of trolls.

If I was the mod or owner of the website Casey mentioned, and I saw that there was conflict between two clearly defined groups like that, I’d ask myself which group I wanted to hang around: the regular commenters who are capable of having decent conversation, or the new commenters who are only here to stir up trouble. Because the trolls will eventually drive away 95% of the decent people.

Back when I was a cashier, I was working the register on a busy Saturday one of my male customers said to me, “Smile! It can’t be that bad.” Then I tell him, “Actually, I’m working under a lot of pain right now. My lunch break is over an hour late, my head is killing me, my feet hurt, I’ve got cramps, and I’ve still got 4 hours on the clock.”

His response: “Oh.”