It’s just not possible for us to see and review every movie while it’s hot. So one of our readers had a great suggestion: an open thread where those who have seen the new Star Trek can tell us what they thought.
This is it. Tell us what you thought about the female characters and any gender issues or politics the movie raised. And feel free to talk spoilers.
This comment thread WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS.
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{ 42 comments… read them below or add one }
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I liked how Uhura was given much more to do here, and that her technical aptitude was highlighted, but why did they have to have her dating a man that had influence over her career?
I loved the character, though. She was a smart, gorgeous, and confident woman who definitely had control over her own choices. I would unreservedly like her relationship in the film, too, if it weren’t for that pesky breach of military protocol. Although I don’t know how much that would matter at Starfleet Academy…
And while it isn’t a gender issue, I was glad that Spock wasn’t as “tragic mulatto” about his mixed-race heritage as he’s been in some episodes / movies. His appearance before that little Vulcan council about his education was awesome.
Theora(Quote) (Reply)
Woops! I was going to make this quick post this evening, but the open thread beat me to it! But here are my thoughts:
I really, really enjoyed the new Star Trek movie. Like, really. I clapped my hands against my knees at various points and did that happy bouncing-in-the-seat thing that I always make fun of my mother for doing. I am totally going to see it again. Probably several times.
That said, there are two things that seriously annoyed me about the treatment of women in the film. The first is the super-short mini-skirt uniforms. I know, I know – they’re an homage to the Original Series uniforms, etc. But they’re still stupid. The end.
The other thing is the way that female characters – and, specifically, mothers – were used for motivation for male characters. Kirk’s dad did what he did partly to save his pregnant wife. Nero did what he did to avenge his pregnant wife. A hefty chunk of Spock’s grief was over his mother’s death.
Women who are a) not mothers and b) active in the plot are… Well, basically Uhura. (and, to be fair, Uhura totally rocked. But it was some very lonely rockin’)
It’s a film inspired by an ensemble cast TV show that had very few women in recurring roles, I know. But still. I want better from my science fiction.
Revena(Quote) (Reply)
Uhura arguably replaces Bones as the minor member of the trinity. Traditionally Kirk and Spock are primary, Bones is secondary, and Uhura, Checkov, Sulu, and Scotty are all tertiary. In the the new film Uhura appears to ascend to Bones’ secondary place. At worst the two are equal in importance.
The buildup for Uhura fails to pay off, however. She and Chekov are the only two (of the aforementioned seven) who have no action scenes (aside from being tossed around a shaking ship), and she has no real hero moment. She’s depicted as hypercompetent and self-possessed, but those qualities attract men, rather than save-the-day scenarios.
This was a good start with inadequate follow-through.
Jessie(Quote) (Reply)
I’m torn about new Uhura. I love her character development, but by the end of the movie, much of that seemed to be abandoned just so she could “stand by her man.” There are other reasons why I don’t love the Spock/Uhura pairing (not the least of which, honestly, is that I’m a big Spock fan and like him conflicted and single), but I do wonder why she had to be paired with any of the male characters. One of the things I like about Star Trek is that there can truly be career women–I’d hate for subsequent films to make her into little more than Spock’s girlfriend.
And while I loved the turbolift scene, the transporter room makeout was crass and unprofessional, which didn’t fit well with either of their characters, extenuating emotional circumstances or not.
Phoebe(Quote) (Reply)
Sorry about that, Revena – we need to set up a system so we know who’s seeing stuff.
I haven’t seen the movie yet, but I’m getting Sam Carter flashbacks from the descriptions of “unprofessional”… seriously, Uhura/Spock? This is actually striking me as a step backwards to compensate for a step forward – Uhura may not have been as featured in the original series as (it sounds like she is) in the movie, but OTOH she wasn’t anybody’s girlfriend.
Jennifer Kesler(Quote) (Reply)
I really liked the Uhura/Spock dynamic, but I think the criticisms on the basis of it being unprofessional are totally valid, and it is definitely uncool that the only female “main” character was in a romantic relationship while the bulk of the male characters weren’t. On the professional/unprofessional front, I do think there’s been some good evidence in other shows in the Star Trek canon that romantic entanglements between people serving together aren’t particularly frowned upon, but adding in that Spock seems to have been one of Uhura’s instructors… Yeah.
It still works for me, but I think it would have been better if there had been some other relationships to contrast it against. Another thing to hope for in sequels?
Revena(Quote) (Reply)
I was super disappointed with Uhura actually. I think she kissed Spock at least as many times as she did her job. Also disappointed with the other women in the movie who were there to be pregnant, die, or be pregnant AND dead.
I guess Star Trek is getting my frustration because in the past two weeks I’ve also seen Up and Wolverine, and they too have women whose story purposes are to die to motivate the men.
Emma(Quote) (Reply)
The fact that he’s her (former? I guess? it really wasn’t clear if they all officially graduated, come to think of it) teacher was a bit troubling, but I could even buy a discreet relationship between the two. It was mostly the tongue wrestling with an audience that seemed really weird to me, especially as earlier in the movie he was worried about allegations of favoritism if he even put her on the ship.
Phoebe(Quote) (Reply)
After re-reading my last comment, I felt the need to clarify that the idea of Uhura/Spock generally appeals to me. I’m just objecting to the possible professionalism issues.
Actually, I can’t think of a pairing you could make from the first series that wouldn’t work. Hmm.
Jennifer Kesler(Quote) (Reply)
Uhura/Spock was so out of the left field for me! I was trying to think of anything in the canon that would have explained this, and then realized it was pointless. Nevertheless, it still felt professional yet loving, even with the makeout scene in the transporter room. I really enjoyed the pairing as it played out, and that it was an actually well-matched pairing based on mutual admiration and respect, rather than the traditional lust=love idiocy.
There’re a ton of other problems which have already been pointed out, and I’ve got a few others, like, what was up with the High Council praying in the cave when Spock goes to get them? And why was Spock’s mom part of the council, especially when the Vulcans are pretty xenophobic? (Yeah, I know, WIR factor)
My biggest grouse is that, with re-setting the canon as they did, why the HELL would they make Kirk the captain? Seriously, he was just assholing his way through the entire freaking movie, and somehow, in Hollywood’s admiration of the straight white male goldenboy, he gets rewarded for being an asshole throughout. I’m not even sure that’s in accordance with Starfleet regulations. Just – HOW? Argh.
Jha(Quote) (Reply)
Oh, oh, oh, how about that Orion girl that Kirk was making out with? I found it really interesting that an Orion (who are supposed to be hypersexual and irresistable) was actually in Starfleet Academy. It’s definitely a departure from typical TOS fare where they’re usually dancing around looking sultry. Not so hot on the fact that it was for Kirk to make out with SOMEONE and then see Uhura undressing, but I found it amusing when she tells him, “I think I love you” and within the next three seconds, “my roommate doesn’t like me bringing guys back.”
Jha(Quote) (Reply)
I’m just happy Uhura didn’t sleep with Kirk. That was weighing heavily on my mind for the first half. “Oh god, PLEASE don’t fall for his roguish charm and end up being in love with him.”
I liked Uhura a lot, but yeah, wished she had done more. But I felt that, besides Kirk and Spock, I didn’t see enough of *anybody* and that was a time constraint. There is apparently a potential sequel though – if this ends up being a franchise, over the course of the new movies they might all get their chance to shine.
I wasn’t expecting a plethora of other woman characters that weren’t somebody’s mom, given the material it’s based on, but I was also pleased that you see the occasional women in the background doing all the same jobs that the men are doing. (They just don’t really talk about it, which is a shame – there were several dude characters who would come on and tell Kirk stuff or give him a dressing down, at least one of them could’ve been a woman?)
TallyCola(Quote) (Reply)
In general, I feel like this movie steps backward from even where the TV series was. The TV series had a female Romulan commander, lots of women scientists, and so on. Why weren’t there any female Romulans, one of the most gender equal species in Star Trek? Or female engineers? Or women who avenged the deaths of men?
Amy(Quote) (Reply)
Amy: Because Gene Roddenberry wasn’t alive to point it out. =(
I wrote a super-long post about Uhura at my blog. I didn’t address any of the problems since it’s being done everywhere else, I just wanted to squee over her.
Jha(Quote) (Reply)
I also was floored by the relationship of Spock and Uhura; especially when a few of the trailers deceptively alluded to a Kirk/Uhura “scene”. Re: Kirk in bed with a woman in a darkened room right after a shot of Uhura taking her blouse off. (See some of the trailers on the
official site). I think this was done to throw all us old-timers off. I say this because in the original TV series, there seemed to be a little sexual tension between the two at times and even an episode where they were “forced” to kiss; which for the late 60′s early 70′s was a BIG deal.
But, while I realize there is just not enough time in a 2 hour movie to flesh out all of the characters; Spock was much more in touch with his human side. He was cool and efficient but more susceptible to his emotion for this generation. He lost his mother, planet and was still distant from his father. All he had left was Uhura and was in danger of not coming back to her.
It was surprising but refreshing to see him loose enough, and still young enough to know the rules but still not in such shut down control as Nimoy’s character was played in the series. The only time Spock Prime (Nimoy) lost his composure in the TV series is when he was sick or drugged.
Enough about Spock. Uhura has been expanded a little more for this movie but the furture episodes has some ‘splainin’ (Lucy sitcom reference, for those too young to know it) to do.
Dee(Quote) (Reply)
@Amy at 13: I totally agree. I feel like in a lot of ways generally, however, we’re sort of moving backwards in time. Star Trek is still groundbreaking 50 years later, because society isn’t really changing all that much, despite what we think.
If this had been a different franchise, something smaller, something less enduring… honestly I’m not sure if Uhura and Sulu would’ve still been black and Asian in the movie. Maybe I’m totally off base, but if this had been something else, they would’ve been more likely to pull the “colourblind” casting excuse and get the “best possible actors”, who are usually somehow white.
TallyCola(Quote) (Reply)
1. The skirts, our miltary women wear skirts… I’m a Marine, I have skirts for my dress and service uniforms.
2. Uhura/Spock, for those not paying attention, Capt Pike promoted them both (and Kirk too), it was no longer a student-teacher relationship, they were put on an equal playing field. There is a hint that something’s there when she questions him about her assignment. He needed her even though it was “illogical” because his human half was hurting, his mother was gone, their interactions were done with class and respect.
3. The underwear scene, she was in her own room… it wasn’t her fault that Kirk was there (also in his underwear) making out with her roommate.
4. Uhura did more then she’s getting credit for. Had it not been for what she heard in the lab, the Capt wouldn’t have listened to Kirk, which ended up saving their lives. She got promoted on the spot and the Capt had her replace the linguist on the bridge because she was better then him.
5. Kirk as Capt, he wasn’t given the post, he was assigned as 1st officer when Pike went to Nyro’s ship. He saved their asses (and with Uhura’s help) stopped them from walking into a trap, he was a jerk, how would you act if you lost your father and never got to meet him, I’d be a jerk too. When he took command of the ship it wasn’t to be a jerk it was because Spock didn’t like him and refused to listen to anything he had to say, the guy lost his mother and his home, Kirk had to piss him off to relieve him as Capt and save the ship… that happens in the real military, it’s rare but it happens.
I liked the movie, and I understood why JJ did it that way, I’m sure it’s not the last Star Trek with this team of people
AJ(Quote) (Reply)
Needs more women, and the women there are need more to do, but one thing they get MAJOR kudos for is subverting the expectations laid down by every romantic comedy and anime ever.
Kirk liked Uhura on sight. Uhura disliked Kirk on sight. In just about ANY other movie, that would mean that after a few hours of bickering he’d “win her over” and her protests and denials would all fall by the wayside and she’d fall into bed with him.
But no! She really ISN’T interested! Uhura’s not in denial or playing hard to get! She’s ACTUALLY not that into him! She’s in a relationship already with somebody completely different from him! And NOT a Passionless Relationship with a Safe Boring Guy which will Dissolve once she Realizes how Exciting and Sexy the Male Lead is ™. Nor is it a Dysfunctional Relationship with a Jerk which the Male Lead will Rescue her from ™.
Persistence is not all you need to make her love you, and no actually does mean NO for goddamn once. Saints be praised and alleluiah.
Dani Atkinson(Quote) (Reply)
Man, I did not care for the Uhura characterization at all. I thought she was in the film at the beginning mostly for sex (who else appears in underwear?) and then the offer of sexual healing to Spock came out of nowhere for me. And no woman in our current military wears short short micro minis. They let it drop that she heard some important information and then…doesn’t tell anyone until asked to. What? why didn’t she report the Romulan communications immediately?
My husband agreed with me, FWIW. In fact, he said the more he thought about it, the more disturbed he was, as was I. The entire character could have been cut and nothing would have changed in the plot at all.
carol(Quote) (Reply)
(who else appears in underwear?)
Kirk? Like, in the same scene, too.
Sam(Quote) (Reply)
I was excited to see an Uhura at the beginning of the film who was competent, talented and professional. I was not particularly for or against Uhura/Spock. I was, however, appalled that once again apparently a girl can’t be both a competent, talented professional and a woman in a relationship. It almost seemed that the more we saw of her relationship with Spock, the less she had to do in the film, work-wise.
amymccabe(Quote) (Reply)
Without Uhura, the Enterprise would have have arrived at Vulcan unprepared, and been destroyed. I may be going out on a limb here, but I’m inclined to think that would have had some effect on the plot.
Paul A.(Quote) (Reply)
*** SPOILERS ***
I’m not sure if I’m being too nitpicky, but Kirk’s mother was looking more at her baby than at her dying spouse’s final moment. Then again it could just be shock. It’s just women in movies are always totally infatuated with their newborns, no matter what insanity is happening around them.
I agree that Kirk was a dickhead. Why women in Hollywood movies are /impressed/ by that behaviour I don’t know. Thank goodness she ends up with Spock…..except I was disappointed with the total lack of buildup in their relationship. Why put it in if it just popped out of nowhere, and doesn’t serve much purpose in the plot? That’s no fun!
I liked Uhura, but I expect a lot more.
Karakuri(Quote) (Reply)
I recently read an awesome essay on the Macho Sue which I think quite wonderfully characterizes not just the machismo of the character type, but also why he gets away with his bullshit. I think it quite perfectly explains why certain people are so enamoured with Kirk that they would LET HIM BE CAPTAIN EVEN THOUGH HE WAS A COMPLETE ASSHOLE.
Jha(Quote) (Reply)
Meh. Uhura did not rock, in my book. She rocked by 1966 standards, but the Nichelle Nichols version already did that. Sorry, but this was an insult to a historic character.
New Uhura is the hottie girlfriend (note that I do like the idea of Uhura/Spock, and she definitely wears the pants in that relationship even though he outranks her), and she only exists to tease Jim Kirk and tie a yellow ribbon — I mean, monitor life signals when Spock is off the ship. The only other women with speaking parts were Kirk’s green one-night-stand, Kirk’s mom, and Spock’s mom.
Friends tell me that J.J. Abrams is not usually so clumsy with female characters. I hope they’re right and he gives her more to do in the sequel. Granted, it’s hard to do justice to seven characters in the course of a feature film, but it’s also absolutely typical that the one most neglected would be the token girl, relegated to having no character development except that which relates her to the men. (Even Chekov got more personality than that.)
Brenda(Quote) (Reply)
Kirk’s mom’s obstetrician was a woman, who actually got to do her job without existing to influence a man’s emotions.
Amy(Quote) (Reply)
I would just like to also point out, I think its unfortunate there weren’t more opportunities for women, but there is an already established list of characters. The trekkers would have went crazy if JJ replaced one. What he is doing, and will probably do in the future is slowly lessen some characters (probably Bones) and highlight others Uhura. Maybe the next baddie will be a woman…who knows. I have high hopes he will increase Uhura’s screen time and not just in relationship to her relationship with Spock. As much as we want equality, Spock and Kirk are the primary characters here. As the time-line moves forward away from the original JJ will more room to tinker with the formula.
Cassie(Quote) (Reply)
Friends tell me that J.J. Abrams is not usually so clumsy with female characters. I hope they’re right and he gives her more to do in the sequel.
J.J. Abrams usually does a pretty decent job with his female TV characters. But the film industry is less willing to experiment with breaking stereotypes than TV is, possibly just because making a failed TV pilot is a lot less of a financial disaster than is making a failed movie. And in either case, I don’t know how much power he has over the final product. It could be he thinks Uhura was just fine, or it could be he’d have done more but was held back by the studio’s desire to push male leads or the film industry’s idea that “love interest who doesn’t scream when she sees mice” is every bit as interesting as a woman in sci-fi needs to be.
Jennifer Kesler(Quote) (Reply)
Exactly (Jennifer Kesler),
His female characters in Lost for example (which is like sci-fi/fantasy) strike balances between being stereotypes and women. Kate comes off a bit of both: like a ‘tomboy’ in terms of her behavior and background (she avenges her mother but also is very ‘she-wolf’ toward a cub not her own) but still a plot device for a love triangle between two male leads – and is of course beautiful. But you can see that a lot of the male characters are stereotypes in some ways as well.
That and the other characters all have mommy/daddy issues so that theme is pretty consistent in all his work. The more I think about it, the more Star Trek seems to fit that bill too, some of the themes seem more similar than others.
Cassie(Quote) (Reply)
“I would just like to also point out, I think its unfortunate there weren’t more opportunities for women, but there is an already established list of characters.”
Yeah, a list that includes Nurse Chapel and Yeoman Rand. Not that they have to be included, but if they wanted existing female characters, that wasn’t a problem.
Amy(Quote) (Reply)
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