Can you call yourself a feminist if you still think the man should pay entirely for every date between a man and a woman?
I never thought so. Equality means equal opportunity and equal responsibility. One argument against shared payment is that women still don’t have equal opportunity. We still aren’t earning quite as much as men. To this I say: then maybe we should stop dating more than we can afford to, until that changes. What better way to inspire men to back us on the importance of equal pay for equal work, than letting them ask out their girlfriends only to hear, “I’m sorry, I can’t afford another date until next payday”? [This suggestion is tongue-in-cheek. Edited for clarity.]
The most persuasive argument I’ve heard in favor of expecting men to pay for dates is: because women spend so much more money on getting ready. This is undeniably true, on average. Most of us remove hair from much of our body. We moisturize. We use conditioner. We wear makeup. We use products in our hair. Our clothes and shoes are generally more expensive, and we’re expected to own more of them. We’re expected to carry handbags. These expenditures add up, even for very frugal women.
Men like to whine that they don’t force these appearance standards on women, that women do it to themselves. This is bullshit. How many women do you know who keep their hair unconditioned, don’t moisturize and don’t shave, and still get dates? From men? While male heterosexuality is signaled by a cheap, efficient hygiene routine that leaves the man looking slightly better than when he rolled out of bed, the same routine in a woman is culturally coded to indicate we’re lesbians. No, if we don’t take the time to alter our appearance to something unnatural, that means we don’t like sex with men. The absurdity, it blows gaskets of the mind.
Anyway, what are your thoughts on who should pay for dates, and why?
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That is really fascinating, culturally, because here in Germany:
If I am invited to a bbq, then it is expected of me to bring either my own food, or to bring part of the food for everyone (ex.: one brings meat, one makes salad, etc). And if I go out with my brother, then there is no question that we will go dutch.
The Other Patrick(Quote) (Reply)
It varies regionally in the US, but generally if you’re invited to a party, you’re supposed to bring a dish, or some wine, or something. But I took Liem’s comment as meaning he isn’t expected to bring ALL the food items to the bbq, which makes the analogy work better.
And I like the idea that the person who does the inviting does the paying.
Jennifer Kesler(Quote) (Reply)
I’ve got to agree here. The custom in Germany, seems to be what we call a pot luck, not a barbecue.
And I think it’s ridiculously rude to invite someone out to a meal, and then expect them to pay for your food. That’s basically inviting yourself to a meal, at their expense. And if there is no advanced warning, it’s not only mooching under false pretenses, it’s imposing a potentially embarrassing situation for the guest, who may not be able to cover the cost of the date. It’s even worse if the host invited the guest to a proper restaurant, or a movie, and not just a cup or coffee.
I think the person who invites the other out, should pick the location, and pay for their guest. No going dutch unless the guest asserts that they are more comfortable paying their own way. I agree with Liem that gender is not the issue. This is basic social grace 101.
Liem is a modern gentleman.
Lilleus Von Lof(Quote) (Reply)
Yeah, definitely varies. When my family does bbq’s (usually at my dad’s place) it’s understood that we supply the food. We invite people over to spend time with them in exchange for good food and more good company. Sure, people will bring food, but we don’t ask/tell them to–it’s polite! Especially if they bring dessert. Dessert is waaaaaaay polite.
Anne(Quote) (Reply)
I’ve always been of the opinion, in any social invitation, that the one who asks should expect to pay. Of course, the person invited shouldn’t assume this to be the case, and should be prepared to pick up their own tab.
Specifically regarding dating, I prefer a 50-50 over time split, ie, he picks up some things, I pick up others. This is very important to me, because I’m a vegan. I don’t want to pay for his animal products, so, if we split 50-50, I can justify this as my share going only towards vegan items.
Kali Ravel(Quote) (Reply)
I’m a man who shaves his body, moisturizes, uses fancy hair products, and puts on makeup before a special date, so, for my dates, it’s about 50% likely I’m the one who spends more to prepare.
Also…I tend to date women who make more than me, so they can often afford it more than I.
I realize I’m not particularly representative of my gender, but for me at least, the expectation that I should pay for dates doesn’t make much sense, and I’m trying to rid myself of it.
M(Quote) (Reply)
I’m actually far more comfortable accepting someone else paying for me once we’re in an established relationship. For me, allowing someone else to pay my way makes me feel really vulnerable and a little beholden – do I owe this person something for shelling out all that money for me? Do THEY think I owe them something for that? Once I know and trust the person well enough to actually be in a relationship with them, it’s more ok – I still feel a little silly letting someone else pay for me, but it seems to make them happy and I know it’s not going to bite me on the ass, so why not?
Kristy(Quote) (Reply)
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