Comments on: The One Thing I Don’t Like About Firefly and Serenity http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/ the search for good women characters Mon, 22 Mar 2010 04:16:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Maria http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/comment-page-1/#comment-91257 Maria Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:04:57 +0000 http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/#comment-91257 And they ALWAYS have long hair!! That actually bothers me a lot -- my hair's a struggle just when I'm doing yoga, and I could not imagine being hyperfemme (long hair out, long nails, heels, tight clothes, etc) and trying to get a good stretch, let alone kick someone's butt. Even the workout class where that's sort of the point (the pole dancing one I just started) features ladies with some serious musculature, since to keep your balance in heels while doing yoga works the fuck out of your thighs and hamstrings. They certainly aren't chubby or fat -- but they for sure aren't DAINTY either. That's what I liked about that particular extra on S1 of T:TSC -- both Glau and the contortionist are thin, but when they're practicing, at least, you can get a since of the kind of musculature at work in their movements... then they costume/makeup that out, so that when they do the shot by shot comparison it's GLARING how different it looks. And they ALWAYS have long hair!! That actually bothers me a lot — my hair’s a struggle just when I’m doing yoga, and I could not imagine being hyperfemme (long hair out, long nails, heels, tight clothes, etc) and trying to get a good stretch, let alone kick someone’s butt. Even the workout class where that’s sort of the point (the pole dancing one I just started) features ladies with some serious musculature, since to keep your balance in heels while doing yoga works the fuck out of your thighs and hamstrings. They certainly aren’t chubby or fat — but they for sure aren’t DAINTY either.

That’s what I liked about that particular extra on S1 of T:TSC — both Glau and the contortionist are thin, but when they’re practicing, at least, you can get a since of the kind of musculature at work in their movements… then they costume/makeup that out, so that when they do the shot by shot comparison it’s GLARING how different it looks.

]]> By: Lynne http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/comment-page-1/#comment-91256 Lynne Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:27:52 +0000 http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/#comment-91256 Absolutely! Even Joss falls prey to the small girl/big gun dynamic... a lot. And fetishistic is absolutely the right word to describe it. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SmallGirlBigGun) I love Buffy, and it makes me feel better to put the archetypical skinny badass in a supernatural context, but I recognize that often, little chicks dishing out beat-downs are just a newer outlet for male gaze (albeit with a sheen of awe.) The thing that bothers me is that female fighters tend to never get mussed or unattractive, even in the heat of battle. I could never give up my addiction to action, though-- realistic or not, I love explosions and a world in peril that gets saved at the end of the day. I DO think it would be neat to see action heroines that don't have to beat men at their own game once in a while... Absolutely! Even Joss falls prey to the small girl/big gun dynamic… a lot. And fetishistic is absolutely the right word to describe it. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SmallGirlBigGun)

I love Buffy, and it makes me feel better to put the archetypical skinny badass in a supernatural context, but I recognize that often, little chicks dishing out beat-downs are just a newer outlet for male gaze (albeit with a sheen of awe.) The thing that bothers me is that female fighters tend to never get mussed or unattractive, even in the heat of battle.

I could never give up my addiction to action, though– realistic or not, I love explosions and a world in peril that gets saved at the end of the day. I DO think it would be neat to see action heroines that don’t have to beat men at their own game once in a while…

]]> By: Maria http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/comment-page-1/#comment-91251 Maria Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:58:08 +0000 http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/#comment-91251 If you have access to the DVD of S1 of the Sarah Connor Chronicles, there's a great extra featuring the fight choreagraphy between Summer Glau and another female terminator who's played by a contortionist. What I liked about it is that they emphasized that the physics of force are meant to look really odd because the actresses fighting weren't supposed to be human. Maybe that's a cop out -- I mean, the male terminators are always big and strong, and with the Cylons in BSG, neither the Cavil nor Leoben male models ass kick to the same extent their fragile female counterparts do. I think there's a tendency to fetishize little female asskickers like that's feminist or ground breaking, even tho it's not and it's a re-deification of a particular female body type that gets more and more unrealistic in each iteration. If you have access to the DVD of S1 of the Sarah Connor Chronicles, there’s a great extra featuring the fight choreagraphy between Summer Glau and another female terminator who’s played by a contortionist. What I liked about it is that they emphasized that the physics of force are meant to look really odd because the actresses fighting weren’t supposed to be human.

Maybe that’s a cop out — I mean, the male terminators are always big and strong, and with the Cylons in BSG, neither the Cavil nor Leoben male models ass kick to the same extent their fragile female counterparts do. I think there’s a tendency to fetishize little female asskickers like that’s feminist or ground breaking, even tho it’s not and it’s a re-deification of a particular female body type that gets more and more unrealistic in each iteration.

]]> By: Lynne http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/comment-page-1/#comment-91249 Lynne Mon, 08 Feb 2010 08:43:32 +0000 http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/#comment-91249 @Jennifer: I agree-- the River we see in Simon's flashbacks is much more interesting than the ominously babbling River. I also want to note that she isn't built like an action heroine because she isn't one. Her asskicking, while kickass, is mechanical and unnatural. She was cast to look like a teenage girl, not a statuesque goddess, and when she does things that shouldn't be physically possible for her, it SHOULD be jarring. Personally I don't have trouble suspending my disbelief when it comes to action-physics (clarke's third law, all the way!) but I was under the impression that River is slight and fragile looking because that's who SHE is. /end rant/ I do wish there were more high-profile built ladies as well as better choreographed fights (but seeing as how I haven't been into the martial arts since I was young, I wouldn't know where to begin...) because I think a touch of realism within the unrealistic situation makes for more interesting TV. I'm really attached to Firefly because the characters are so real that I can forgive the bad Mandarin and improbable mechanics. @Jennifer: I agree– the River we see in Simon’s flashbacks is much more interesting than the ominously babbling River. I also want to note that she isn’t built like an action heroine because she isn’t one. Her asskicking, while kickass, is mechanical and unnatural. She was cast to look like a teenage girl, not a statuesque goddess, and when she does things that shouldn’t be physically possible for her, it SHOULD be jarring.

Personally I don’t have trouble suspending my disbelief when it comes to action-physics (clarke’s third law, all the way!) but I was under the impression that River is slight and fragile looking because that’s who SHE is. /end rant/

I do wish there were more high-profile built ladies as well as better choreographed fights (but seeing as how I haven’t been into the martial arts since I was young, I wouldn’t know where to begin…) because I think a touch of realism within the unrealistic situation makes for more interesting TV. I’m really attached to Firefly because the characters are so real that I can forgive the bad Mandarin and improbable mechanics.

]]> By: Dale http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/comment-page-1/#comment-87249 Dale Sat, 28 Feb 2009 15:47:29 +0000 http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/#comment-87249 A couple more examples of kickass women who actually have muscles. Juno from The Descent, played by Natalie Mendoza. The character was very into extreme sports. Then she had to kill cave monsters. I just watched this movie last week, Eden Sinclair from Doomsday, from the same director as The Descent. Played by Rhona Mitra, who reportedly trained every day so that it wouldn't look completely ridiculous when she was able to beat up someone armed and in full-plate armour. I was impressed with how realistic they were able to make that - she spent most of her time dodging, used kicks rather than punches, went for the head most of the time, and jumped on rocks whenever she could to gain a height advantage, and she still wasn't able to actually take down the guy until she managed to climb a wall and steal a guard's weapon. We also have Viper, portrayed by Lee-ann Linberg, or someone. Sarah Connor on the Terminator TV show, as portrayed by Lena Headly. Although not so much that it's believable when she wins the fight with the much bigger, musclier, also very trained Derek so easily, especially since they were basically wrestling on the ground. A couple more examples of kickass women who actually have muscles.

Juno from The Descent, played by Natalie Mendoza. The character was very into extreme sports. Then she had to kill cave monsters.

I just watched this movie last week, Eden Sinclair from Doomsday, from the same director as The Descent. Played by Rhona Mitra, who reportedly trained every day so that it wouldn’t look completely ridiculous when she was able to beat up someone armed and in full-plate armour. I was impressed with how realistic they were able to make that – she spent most of her time dodging, used kicks rather than punches, went for the head most of the time, and jumped on rocks whenever she could to gain a height advantage, and she still wasn’t able to actually take down the guy until she managed to climb a wall and steal a guard’s weapon. We also have Viper, portrayed by Lee-ann Linberg, or someone.

Sarah Connor on the Terminator TV show, as portrayed by Lena Headly. Although not so much that it’s believable when she wins the fight with the much bigger, musclier, also very trained Derek so easily, especially since they were basically wrestling on the ground.

]]> By: I Read the Internets - 1/27/07 http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/comment-page-1/#comment-21369 I Read the Internets - 1/27/07 Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:54:04 +0000 http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/#comment-21369 [...] Nope. I sure didn’t. [...] [...] Nope. I sure didn’t. [...]

]]> By: Jennifer Kesler http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/comment-page-1/#comment-6461 Jennifer Kesler Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:36:59 +0000 http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/#comment-6461 I think I'm one of the rare people who didn't see her as just a plot device. I was quite affected by how this exceptional young girl had been twisted into a tortured killing machine by pricks seeking to cover their own asses. She's a little tough to get into because she doesn't really speak for herself, because she can't: I think that's why some people don't see her as a real character. It just depends whether the glimpses we get of her through Simon move you or not, I suppose. I certainly don't think Whedon intended her to be a plot device, though - nor do I think he failed. It's just a tough type of character to pull off. I think I’m one of the rare people who didn’t see her as just a plot device. I was quite affected by how this exceptional young girl had been twisted into a tortured killing machine by pricks seeking to cover their own asses. She’s a little tough to get into because she doesn’t really speak for herself, because she can’t: I think that’s why some people don’t see her as a real character. It just depends whether the glimpses we get of her through Simon move you or not, I suppose.

I certainly don’t think Whedon intended her to be a plot device, though – nor do I think he failed. It’s just a tough type of character to pull off.

]]> By: Revena http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/comment-page-1/#comment-6450 Revena Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:17:32 +0000 http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/#comment-6450 That's how my friend Karen feels about her, too. It's a reasonable critique! That’s how my friend Karen feels about her, too. It’s a reasonable critique!

]]> By: scarlett http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/comment-page-1/#comment-6434 scarlett Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:37:28 +0000 http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/#comment-6434 I just watched Firfely and Serenity, and River always struck me as a 'plot device' character - the one the drag out when they need to create tension, or a story twist. But that's just one more thing I'm not fussed about her :p I just watched Firfely and Serenity, and River always struck me as a ‘plot device’ character – the one the drag out when they need to create tension, or a story twist. But that’s just one more thing I’m not fussed about her :p

]]> By: SunlessNick http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/comment-page-1/#comment-2633 SunlessNick Mon, 05 Jun 2006 19:35:10 +0000 http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-one-thing-i-don%e2%80%99t-like-about-firefly-and-serenity/#comment-2633 I agree. I have little problem with Buffy because she is supernatural, but with characters who are "structurally" normal women, I want the "structure" to reflect what they're meant to be capable of. I agree. I have little problem with Buffy because she is supernatural, but with characters who are “structurally” normal women, I want the “structure” to reflect what they’re meant to be capable of.

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