On Ratatouille–I think there was some of the “some got it, some don’t” message going on, but on the other hand, I think the character Collette made it clear that she gained her proficiency with cooking from years of hard work, rather than her natural specialness. Also, while Remy’s brother and the other rats might not have his talent, they all did assist in the preparation of the final meal. So I’m not sure if there’s necessarily that fine line being drawn.

One of the most interesting scenes in Ratatouille was when Remy was trying to explain taste to his brother, and the subtleties of the different flavors were represented by music (which Remy could hear and his brother just couldn’t). Whereas, in The Incredibles it seemed like there was less of a fixed dividing line between cool and not cool. (You can see from the cape sequence that being “super” doesn’t make one automatically amazing.)

Since they’re both by the same director, though, each one affects how you view the themes of the other.

Incidentally, total agreement that the women are terrific. For my money the movie would be vastly improved if they’d cut out all the main male characters, except maybe Syndrome, and made Elastigirl the hero.

I’ll stop spamming your blog now.

The whole “commodification of excellence is bad” message was done much more effectively in Ratatouille, imho. It really grasped the way working at skills (vs. being handed whatever natural talent may or may not be there and settling for your own personal “mediocrity”) is a labor of love, and that anyone can really do/be anything with the right teacher, creative thinking, hard work, etc. etc.

Besides that and the potential for the mishandling of Edna Mode (WHO IS TOTALLY EDITH HEAD!), those were my only issues with the movie; I really appreciated the message I took from The Incredibles, which was not to compromise and stifle yourself by trying to force yourself to be normal (vs. neccesarily passing for normal a la Dash’s deliberate win/loss in the school race, but they are superheroes and have to hide their non-normalcy…). Because we’re all special snowflakes. Some of us are just superpowered special snowflakes. Also the soundtrack is kickin’.

I feel like the movie showed that one can be exceptional in lots of different ways. Syndrome and Edna Mode were both geeky and unattractive and yet they were both brilliant and exceptional. So, to me, it’s not that it was saying “there are winners and there are losers” so much as it was saying “people can be exceptional in different ways.”

I agree with the moral that we shouldn’t celebrate mediocrity. But this isn’t exactly a slam on the traditional losers. It seems more like a call to recognize that there isn’t a binary in/out or super/loser spectrum (but rather a variety of ways to excel), and even someone who seems like a loser in some ways, may not be…

I’m having a brainfart: did you mean TI isn’t trying to say anything? Because what got under my skin seemed like a pretty consistent theme of special people who can and should get to use their powers against normals. (Caveat, I haven’t seen TI since it came out so my recollection may be off.) Bob punches his elderly boss: hero moment. Dash torments his teacher, Helen punches Mirage: comedy. Dash wins against normal kids: happy end. As you say, Syndrome isn’t a loser by ordinary standards. He’s like ten times smarter than Bob. But he’s an ugly geek in a movie where jocks win.

but Syndrome’s evil because he won’t accept that some people are just born superior and guys like him are born losers.

Right, but I think this is where the “moral” of the piece is a little garbled. Even though Buddy/Syndrome doesn’t have super powers, he’s clearly not just another loser.

And in the end, Mr. Incredible essentially renounces his “I work alone” ethos. Defeating the omnidroid was very much a team effort, in which all of the team members (of varying abilities) were instrumental.

As far as the movie’s moral is concerned, I think this film is very much like Cars (see here): on the surface the film appears to be making a point, but in reality, it isn’t.

That’s not quite how I interpreted the line in context. Syndrome isn’t saying he wants everyone to get a gold star just for showing up. He wants normals to have a crack at being superheroes for once. Mainly because he thinks it would hurt real superheroes, but a different director could easily have shown him as more misguided idealist than cackling villain. But Syndrome’s evil because he won’t accept that some people are just born superior and guys like him are born losers.

That’s the message I got from the movie, anyway, which I think also fits with the Ratatouille quote. Gusteau surely never intended Anyone Can Cook to mean “Everyone can be a four star chef”, rather “Everyone can learn to cook a decent meal”. But the idea of ordinary people stretching themselves and doing better gets no play in the movie. Linguini doesn’t learn anything from Remy except that he’s not good enough to be a chef. Unless you’re naturally brilliant, you’re nothing.

I do love the fact that Pixar is starting to subvert Disney’s evil/dead mother paradigm. Now if they could just make an Incredibles sequel focusing on Elastigirl and/or Violet. It’d be great to see Helen (and Bob, for that matter) continuing to mentor their kids as they grow into their superpowers.