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	<title>Comments on: Women as Buddies &#8211; rarer on film than it is in real life</title>
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		<title>By: Anemone Cerridwen</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/women-as-buddies-rarer-on-film-than-it-is-in-real-life-2/#comment-89720</link>
		<dc:creator>Anemone Cerridwen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 04:43:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/women-as-buddies-rarer-on-film-than-it-is-in-real-life-2/#comment-89720</guid>
		<description>&quot;I know from conversations with people in film that filmmakers firmly and unyieldingly believe we want to see sex, sex, sex and, oh yeah – sex. It’s become a religious dogma – if you suggest this “fact” could possibly be in doubt, they cut you off with a jaded and worldly impatience that says they once believed as you do, young one, but you will soon learn the power of the dark side.&quot;

This is particularly funny because I actually collected hard data and crunched the numbers and found that sex is *negatively* correlated with box office. When I reported this on an actors forum, I was told I was wrong.

Splutter, splutter.

I managed to find a coauthor to help me get my numbers into an academic journal. Should be fun when the paper comes out. 

Did I already link to this here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I know from conversations with people in film that filmmakers firmly and unyieldingly believe we want to see sex, sex, sex and, oh yeah – sex. It’s become a religious dogma – if you suggest this “fact” could possibly be in doubt, they cut you off with a jaded and worldly impatience that says they once believed as you do, young one, but you will soon learn the power of the dark side.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is particularly funny because I actually collected hard data and crunched the numbers and found that sex is *negatively* correlated with box office. When I reported this on an actors forum, I was told I was wrong.</p>
<p>Splutter, splutter.</p>
<p>I managed to find a coauthor to help me get my numbers into an academic journal. Should be fun when the paper comes out. </p>
<p>Did I already link to this here?</p>
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		<title>By: Scarlett</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/women-as-buddies-rarer-on-film-than-it-is-in-real-life-2/#comment-85123</link>
		<dc:creator>Scarlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 17:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/women-as-buddies-rarer-on-film-than-it-is-in-real-life-2/#comment-85123</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I guess I’m strange, but if I know a guy’s off-limits, I just don’t even go there. Maybe I’m lacking those overwhelming hormones that force you to lust after people who are married or otherwise off-limits?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

A friend of mine got involved with a guy in a longterm relationship, and one of the reasons she cited was she loved that he desired her so much he would jeapordise his relationship. I pointed out that if a guy&#039;s going to cheat, it&#039;s not about the person he cheats with, it&#039;s about him being a jerk. I think she got that intellectually but egotistically, she loved the idea of being so desirable he woudl jeapordise his relationship to be with her.

I suspect that&#039;s a huge factor in people pursuing people who are off-limits. And I think that comes down to self-esteem. When you have a healthy self-image you don&#039;t find married men desiring you to be a compliment, and you have higher standards than married men anyway. I&#039;m not saying it&#039;s entirely the fault of the people who pursue people who are off-limits - women are so sociallyconditioned to place their worth in what men think of them - but I think it&#039;s a sad state of affairs when women judge their worth by how far an off-limits guy is willing to go for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I guess I’m strange, but if I know a guy’s off-limits, I just don’t even go there. Maybe I’m lacking those overwhelming hormones that force you to lust after people who are married or otherwise off-limits?</p></blockquote>
<p>A friend of mine got involved with a guy in a longterm relationship, and one of the reasons she cited was she loved that he desired her so much he would jeapordise his relationship. I pointed out that if a guy&#8217;s going to cheat, it&#8217;s not about the person he cheats with, it&#8217;s about him being a jerk. I think she got that intellectually but egotistically, she loved the idea of being so desirable he woudl jeapordise his relationship to be with her.</p>
<p>I suspect that&#8217;s a huge factor in people pursuing people who are off-limits. And I think that comes down to self-esteem. When you have a healthy self-image you don&#8217;t find married men desiring you to be a compliment, and you have higher standards than married men anyway. I&#8217;m not saying it&#8217;s entirely the fault of the people who pursue people who are off-limits &#8211; women are so sociallyconditioned to place their worth in what men think of them &#8211; but I think it&#8217;s a sad state of affairs when women judge their worth by how far an off-limits guy is willing to go for them.</p>
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		<title>By: SunlessNick</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/women-as-buddies-rarer-on-film-than-it-is-in-real-life-2/#comment-85118</link>
		<dc:creator>SunlessNick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 15:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/women-as-buddies-rarer-on-film-than-it-is-in-real-life-2/#comment-85118</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I guess I’m strange, but if I know a guy’s off-limits, I just don’t even go there.I guess I’m strange, but if I know a guy’s off-limits, I just don’t even go there.  &lt;strong&gt;-  BetaCandy&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Millennium is a good example there, with Frank Black and Lara Means.  They do spark a couple of times, but Frank&#039;s married and he&#039;s not going to cheat, and Lara is not going to ask him to, or pine over him.  And they&#039;re both insightful enough that they&#039;d sense a romantic relationship would likely be disastrous for them as colleagues, friends, and people who both suffer terrifying visions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I guess I’m strange, but if I know a guy’s off-limits, I just don’t even go there.I guess I’m strange, but if I know a guy’s off-limits, I just don’t even go there.  <strong>-  BetaCandy</strong></p></blockquote>
<p>Millennium is a good example there, with Frank Black and Lara Means.  They do spark a couple of times, but Frank&#8217;s married and he&#8217;s not going to cheat, and Lara is not going to ask him to, or pine over him.  And they&#8217;re both insightful enough that they&#8217;d sense a romantic relationship would likely be disastrous for them as colleagues, friends, and people who both suffer terrifying visions.</p>
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		<title>By: Something I like about Scrubs: Elliot and Molly&#8217;s buddy relationship &#124; the Hathor Legacy</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/women-as-buddies-rarer-on-film-than-it-is-in-real-life-2/#comment-85113</link>
		<dc:creator>Something I like about Scrubs: Elliot and Molly&#8217;s buddy relationship &#124; the Hathor Legacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 02:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/women-as-buddies-rarer-on-film-than-it-is-in-real-life-2/#comment-85113</guid>
		<description>[...] that developed between Elliot and Molly. TV and movies don&#8217;t feature nearly enough buddy relationships between women. There are a million possible reasons why, but I think it all boils down to an assumption that the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that developed between Elliot and Molly. TV and movies don&#8217;t feature nearly enough buddy relationships between women. There are a million possible reasons why, but I think it all boils down to an assumption that the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eva</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/women-as-buddies-rarer-on-film-than-it-is-in-real-life-2/#comment-3985</link>
		<dc:creator>Eva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 04:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/women-as-buddies-rarer-on-film-than-it-is-in-real-life-2/#comment-3985</guid>
		<description>You all mention Stargate...do you think there&#039;s a chance Carter and Vala will become teammates/friends vs antagonists based on the fact they&#039;re both women? It&#039;s ok if they&#039;re antagnoists because their methods of doing things are in conflict, or they come from different backgrounds, or one&#039;s military and the other&#039;s...not. 

I&#039;m betting that we don&#039;t see a cat-fight.  Can I keep my fingers crossed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You all mention Stargate&#8230;do you think there&#8217;s a chance Carter and Vala will become teammates/friends vs antagonists based on the fact they&#8217;re both women? It&#8217;s ok if they&#8217;re antagnoists because their methods of doing things are in conflict, or they come from different backgrounds, or one&#8217;s military and the other&#8217;s&#8230;not. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m betting that we don&#8217;t see a cat-fight.  Can I keep my fingers crossed?</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Kesler</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/women-as-buddies-rarer-on-film-than-it-is-in-real-life-2/#comment-3968</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Kesler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 04:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/women-as-buddies-rarer-on-film-than-it-is-in-real-life-2/#comment-3968</guid>
		<description>I guess I&#039;m strange, but if I know a guy&#039;s off-limits, I just don&#039;t even go there.  Maybe I&#039;m lacking those overwhelming hormones that force you to lust after people who are married or otherwise off-limits?  Yep, must be a serious hormonal imbalance there.  /rolleyes</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I&#8217;m strange, but if I know a guy&#8217;s off-limits, I just don&#8217;t even go there.  Maybe I&#8217;m lacking those overwhelming hormones that force you to lust after people who are married or otherwise off-limits?  Yep, must be a serious hormonal imbalance there.  /rolleyes</p>
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		<title>By: sbg</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/women-as-buddies-rarer-on-film-than-it-is-in-real-life-2/#comment-3961</link>
		<dc:creator>sbg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/women-as-buddies-rarer-on-film-than-it-is-in-real-life-2/#comment-3961</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve actually heard people state, specifically about Stargate, that they went in simply assuming that Jack and Sam were a couple...because that&#039;s what shows do: Lead Male Character invariably ends up with Lead Female Character, actual romantic chemistry be damned. It&#039;s there because the writers tell us it&#039;s there, not because we see it naturally.

And romances do happen in real life, it&#039;s true, but to claim that as justification for shoving it down our throats constantly is daft; more often than not, it &lt;em&gt;doesn&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; happen. More often than not people have complex and interesting relationships not based around sex. I know, it&#039;s tough to believe, but I do not want to have sex with my male coworkers. I&#039;m happy to have a drink with them now and again or share stories or whatnot...but no to the sex.

I wish someone somewhere would brave the non-romantic front, because honestly? It&#039;s not what drives me toward shows. If it&#039;s there only as a plot device, it&#039;s what drives me away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve actually heard people state, specifically about Stargate, that they went in simply assuming that Jack and Sam were a couple&#8230;because that&#8217;s what shows do: Lead Male Character invariably ends up with Lead Female Character, actual romantic chemistry be damned. It&#8217;s there because the writers tell us it&#8217;s there, not because we see it naturally.</p>
<p>And romances do happen in real life, it&#8217;s true, but to claim that as justification for shoving it down our throats constantly is daft; more often than not, it <em>doesn&#8217;t</em> happen. More often than not people have complex and interesting relationships not based around sex. I know, it&#8217;s tough to believe, but I do not want to have sex with my male coworkers. I&#8217;m happy to have a drink with them now and again or share stories or whatnot&#8230;but no to the sex.</p>
<p>I wish someone somewhere would brave the non-romantic front, because honestly? It&#8217;s not what drives me toward shows. If it&#8217;s there only as a plot device, it&#8217;s what drives me away.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Kesler</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/women-as-buddies-rarer-on-film-than-it-is-in-real-life-2/#comment-3951</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Kesler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jul 2006 02:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/women-as-buddies-rarer-on-film-than-it-is-in-real-life-2/#comment-3951</guid>
		<description>I totally agree with your whole post.  I think most of the audience DOES assume sexual relationships are more intense and dramatic, but possibly only because that&#039;s what they know to expect from TV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree with your whole post.  I think most of the audience DOES assume sexual relationships are more intense and dramatic, but possibly only because that&#8217;s what they know to expect from TV.</p>
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		<title>By: SunlessNick</title>
		<link>http://thehathorlegacy.com/women-as-buddies-rarer-on-film-than-it-is-in-real-life-2/#comment-3948</link>
		<dc:creator>SunlessNick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 23:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thehathorlegacy.com/women-as-buddies-rarer-on-film-than-it-is-in-real-life-2/#comment-3948</guid>
		<description>As well as boy + girl = sex, I think it&#039;s an assumption that a sexual relationship - or one where sex is desired but unavaillable - is necessarily more dramatic than a nonsexual one.  Or that the viewing public will find it so.  And I don&#039;t know if we&#039;re in a minority or not.

As in so many cases, Alias is a telling example.  One of the biggest relationships in Syd&#039;s life is with Dixon - dramatic, powerful, nuanced - and with no hint of a sexual element.  Then there&#039;s Weiss, who grew close to her in the early part of season 3, but again, not in a sexual way, just the way of a man who sees his friend going through hell.
The there&#039;s Will and Vaughn, both of whom cross into sexual territory:  with Will, there&#039;s so much else between them, and it&#039;s those other things that define them and their relationship; with Vaughn, it&#039;s couched in romantic terms from the very beginning, and easily becomes the least compelling part of the show (I also think that much of what Vaughn feels and does for Syd could have been incorporated just as easily using a colleague-bond).

Love and sex are given such primacy that they end up crowding out other elements:  characters who relate on that level too often have other levels of relationship neglected; and relationships that function on only one level get pretty dull.  The assumption that sex is the most dramatic level can end up leeching more drama than it provides.

Maybe Stargate is an example there as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As well as boy + girl = sex, I think it&#8217;s an assumption that a sexual relationship &#8211; or one where sex is desired but unavaillable &#8211; is necessarily more dramatic than a nonsexual one.  Or that the viewing public will find it so.  And I don&#8217;t know if we&#8217;re in a minority or not.</p>
<p>As in so many cases, Alias is a telling example.  One of the biggest relationships in Syd&#8217;s life is with Dixon &#8211; dramatic, powerful, nuanced &#8211; and with no hint of a sexual element.  Then there&#8217;s Weiss, who grew close to her in the early part of season 3, but again, not in a sexual way, just the way of a man who sees his friend going through hell.<br />
The there&#8217;s Will and Vaughn, both of whom cross into sexual territory:  with Will, there&#8217;s so much else between them, and it&#8217;s those other things that define them and their relationship; with Vaughn, it&#8217;s couched in romantic terms from the very beginning, and easily becomes the least compelling part of the show (I also think that much of what Vaughn feels and does for Syd could have been incorporated just as easily using a colleague-bond).</p>
<p>Love and sex are given such primacy that they end up crowding out other elements:  characters who relate on that level too often have other levels of relationship neglected; and relationships that function on only one level get pretty dull.  The assumption that sex is the most dramatic level can end up leeching more drama than it provides.</p>
<p>Maybe Stargate is an example there as well.</p>
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