This, submitted by The Other Anne, surprised me because it actually comes from one of our other regular commenters. That makes things a little awkward, but it’s a big case of fail that needs to be discussed. Clarissa of Clarissa’s Box says male privilege doesn’t exist:
As a woman, I am routinely underpaid and discriminated in the workplace. In this country, women in all professions are paid less than men for performing the same work. This is disgusting, unfair, and wrong. When you experience it yourself, as I did, it is also very painful. So is that male privilege at work? You could say so if it weren’t for one little thing. I could quit my job today and spend the rest of my life painting my nails and snoozing on the couch while my husband would exercise his male privilege to pay all of my bills, bear the financial responsibility for both of us, stress out about the competition in the workplace and the danger of being laid-off, and die several years earlier than I do.
Clarissa, seriously? How long have you been reading my site, girl? You totally disappeared about 95% of American women in that comment – it would be funny if you weren’t serious. First, Anne’s response:
My reaction: WHAT IS THIS I DON’T EVEN.
Where to begin? Well, for one, no. Not all women can stay at home and paint their nails while their husbands work. For one thing, not everyone has or wants a husband. Not everyone likes men. Not everyone is upper class, or upper middle class, and can afford to have only one person contributing to a household (assuming this is a hetero marriage). Case in point: my parents. My mom had to work to make ends meet the first many years of their marriage. Then she worked to save her from the boring tedium of not doing anything all day. Now she works because her current husband is a retired pilot with a monthly pension and part time job who mostly sits around all day.
And that’s barely scratching the surface of why this post was so full of ablism, classism, sexism, and completely disappeared non-hetero non-cis-gendered people. Quite honestly the laziest argument I’ve ever read–and one that I got, honestly, last year from a mysoginist “friend” of mine who, after learning I was feminist, went all MRA on me about lazy women and how sexism is a lie because women don’t HAVE to work and men DO and the social pressures on men and girls want to be the little spoon and lesbians just need to find better men and they’ll be cured!
Very well said. My first response had a lot of foul language in it, to be honest, because I am one of those women she “disappears.” I’m from a low-class background, and you tend to attract people from your own class, so I’ve never gotten within spitting distance of marrying a man who was ever going to earn enough to feed two people, let alone kids, too. There are precisely two ways for “low class” women to move up a class: if they’re beautiful, they might get to “marry up.” If, like me, they are not beautiful, they have to get out there and earn it themselves. In either case, depending on a man for anything is usually trouble because you’ve got your class and gender screaming “Walk all over me, no one will care” louder than any badass attitude you might radiate. It tends to attract predators.
Oh, yeah. I didn’t even manage to “mooch” a college degree off my parents. I will be stunned if someday some man making great money offers not only to pay my expenses for life, but to pay for servants and services so I don’t have to stir from the couch, the way Clarissa describes – and comments reveal she really did absolutely mean she wouldn’t have to do anything around the house, except occasionally pop a TV dinner into the microwave. Clarissa’s husband must be earning way above the median household income for their area. But two-earner households earning the median or less by far outnumber households like Clarissa’s. Therefore, our experiences count a lot more than hers, from a statistical standpoint, in determining what options are available to “women” in general. Clarissa claims that all privilege talk is just “lazy thinking” that lacks analysis, but no one’s ever provided a better example of jaw dropping unconscious privilege – or lack of analysis – than this post.
In fact, when you think about it, when did more than maybe five percent of American women ever have the option to actually sit around doing nothing while the house and kids were tended by others? The idea that all women have the eternal option of simply mooching off Hubby is one of the most ignorant and embarrassing holdovers from pampered white well-to-do second wave feminism*. Don’t buy into it.
The system Clarissa’s describing also depends on the economic exploitation of underpaid women: women who continue to provide the services on which Clarissa and her husband depend, women who manufacture the goods which Clarissa and her husband divide, and the women whose unpaid labor (child care, elder care, disabled partner care, etc.) make it possible for the working class men to put in the sort of hours that households like Clarissa’s rely upon them (directly or indirectly) to work.
We all look at society from our position upward. We mainly see the people who have it at least as (relatively) easy as we have it, and until some “lazy thinker” babbling about privilege actually causes us to indulge in quite a bit of “analysis”, we don’t notice all the people who have it tougher than we do. Therefore, ironically, society is better understood by people nearer the bottom, who look upward and see all the layers of people having it “easier.” If you’re already near the top and looking upward, then you aren’t in a good position to recognize how many, many people your uninformed “theories” fail to account for. Privilege absolutely does exist, and it’s lazy thinking and failure to analyze and big unexamined, unrecognized privilege that would make someone think it doesn’t.
At least someone nearer the bottom would be aware of all the types of women Anne mentions, and of what’s been happening to salaries in the US in recent years, and that women who do live like Clarissa describes sometimes find themselves in a scary position if the Prince Charming upon whom they’re 100% dependent turns out to have a dark side.
If patriarchy had ever even potentially worked for every single woman – if all us women could all happily marry someone who would take care of us while we did nothing but take up space and provide sex, and in so doing we would never be at risk for abuse, and never be having sex we don’t want to because it’s the only way we know to get our bills paid – do you really think feminism would ever have gotten off the ground? Who would turn down such a sweet deal if it actually worked for women more than maybe 20% of the time? And I think I’m being generous with that estimate: about ten percent of women are lesbians; some other unknown percent are asexuals; a significant percent of women who depend financially on men find themselves abused; and a huge, vast number of women are in a financial class where Clarissa’s “option” is just a fantasy flogged in romance books and movies of the week. This was all true even when single-income households were feasible for a lot of Americans.
And don’t forget that for some women, staying at home isn’t one option among several: it’s the only choice they have due to disabilities that prevent them from working outside the home, if they’re lucky enough to have a partner who can earn for the whole household. Somehow, painting this “choice” as one endless sunny afternoon of lolling on the cushy sofa disappears those women in a whole new painful way.
The truth is, this great “privilege” Clarissa says women enjoy was designed to work for men. Oh, absolutely, it put a difficult burden on a lot of men who weren’t privileged with the ability or correct skin color or connections to earn enough to provide comfortably for a family. We’ve discussed ad nauseum elsewhere on the site how patriarchy hurts men, too, so I’m not going to derail this article with that.
But men created the arrangement by which women could only obtain the resources they needed to survive by spreading their legs to men, either in holy matrimony or on the streets. Men created it, and men benefited from it, because it was the only way to ensure paternity, provide constant availability of women’s bodies for sex and enforce female faithfulness. And if it’s bothering them so much, they can just ensure fair pay and fair employment any ol’ day now, and let up on the pressure for women to marry men and be faithful to men and bear men children, and we’ll all just take care of ourselves and our offspring while men get to run around free of family commitment unless they opt for it, and see how that arrangement works out. Feminists have been proposing this since forever. No problem, guys! Any day now! Guys? Any takers? Was that a tumbleweed that just rolled by?
The system didn’t evolve to make sure women got well taken care of, or else it would have been tweaked until it, you know, actually did that for more than a small minority of women.
*Check out Elizabeth Warren comparing today’s typical two-income household with the single-income household of 1970, because government data indicates that’s the typical household. Now there’s a woman who, coming from humble roots, actually gets what the typical options are for people in the U.S. today, and on a not-entirely-related note, I thoroughly recommend listening to that lecture.


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I now feel the need to quote Jane Austen (because every time is the right time to quote JA):
“There are such beings in the world, perhaps one in a thousand, as the creature you and I should think perfection, where grace and spirit are united to worth, where the manners are equal to the heart and understanding, but such a person may not come in your way, or, if he does, he may not be the eldest son of a man of fortune, the near relation of your particular friend and belonging to your own county.”
http://www.pemberley.com/janeinfo/brablt15.html#toc
M.C.(Quote) (Reply)
I remember back in 08, there was a Guardian or Times article on families that did happily exist on a one person income where the woman didn’t work – until the recession hit. And the marriages were under great strain after that, especially if the husband couldn’t get a new job but the wife could. It’s a set-up that’s more vulnerable to our old friends, Shit and Happens.
Charles RB(Quote) (Reply)
Additionally, a world where fortunes never reverse – no one ever loses a job they can’t immediately replace, no one ever gets sick and discovers lots of the expenses aren’t covered and they’re just outta luck, etc.
Jennifer Kesler(Quote) (Reply)
In the US, child support is for children and alimony is for ex-spouses. However, it’s a lot easier to get child support and it’s somewhat stigmatized not to pay your child support, being shamed as a “deadbeat dad”. Alimony, even when granted by the courts, is seen as your gold-digging, blood-sucking ex mooching off you and it’s a lot more acceptable to not pay, pay late and pay short.
Sylvia Sybil(Quote) (Reply)
In fact, men who mess with alimony payments frequently get congratulated for “sticking it to the bitch”.
Though plenty of deadbeat dads justify not paying by saying they won’t give a dime to “that bitch” again making it all about the ex-wife. And guys who have kids out of wedlock? The selfish bitch got pregnant for the money. Stiff her.
Men can win alimony if they were not the primary breadwinners, but it’s even rarer, partly because fewer men are in that situation upon a divorce, and partly because of the stigma against it. It’s considered emasculating, a disgusting concept in and of itself.
Attackfish(Quote) (Reply)
Another point is that these sugar daddies aren’t supporting you for free. If you’re not managing the household and the children, then you’re probably paying with sex and attractiveness. This guy will feel that you owe him sex and don’t have the right to say no, because after all you’re not doing anything else to earn your keep. And being a trophy wife is a full time job. Constant self-maintenance at spas and salons, always being up to date on fashion and never being allowed to look less than perfect. Not to mention dangerous cosmetic surgery.
It sounds nice, having a sugar daddy pay for your pedicures and shopping trips, but heaven help you if he thinks you don’t look as good as Bob’s wife or you embarrass him in front of his boss by wearing last year’s shoes. If you are a symbol of his status, then you must always be the best trophy you can be. And it’s ultimately futile, because we all age and there are plenty of younger, better-looking women ready to replace you on his arm. When you no longer have sex and attractiveness to trade, you’ll be out on your ass with nothing (bet you wish you hadn’t signed that pre-nup, but such is life).
Sylvia Sybil(Quote) (Reply)
Deadbeat dads are somewhat stigmatized, but unfortunately not stigmatized enough. A guy can always spin it that his ex-wife could support their children by herself, she doesn’t need him to do it. Never mind that they’re his children too and in most cases he isn’t putting in the time and energy that the mother does. Who’s getting up at 3 AM when the kid vomits and who’s walking them through their bedtime temper tantrums?
Sylvia Sybil(Quote) (Reply)
*ex-wife or ex-girlfriend or any other mother-of-child. Apologies for heteronormativity.
Sylvia Sybil(Quote) (Reply)
I work for Child Support Services up here in Alaska…I guarantee that despite our best efforts, a lot of people simply do not pay. I’ve seen cases that were tens of thousands of dollars in arrears.
Jay(Quote) (Reply)
It’s a set-up that’s more vulnerable to our old friends, Shit and Happens.
That’s the best sentence I’ve read yet today, LOL!
Jennifer Kesler(Quote) (Reply)
LOL, indeed!
Although I think I dreamed the whole ‘snoozing in front of the TV painting my nails and watching soap operas’ while I was working myself to the bone taking care of rich people’s children.
Chai Latte(Quote) (Reply)
I admit it, I squee’d. I am such a JA fangirl. (I know some call themselves ‘Janites’, but I prefer ‘Austenista’–it sounds hipper somehow.)
Hmm, perhaps this is a good time to reread Pride and Prejudice. XD
Chai Latte(Quote) (Reply)
EXACTLY. Too many men can father children, then still live the carefree single life. No sitters, no teacher conferences/homework, no driving to activities, no illness, no 24/7 parental “on-duty” mental state. Writing a check every week/month is not the same as being responsible for a kid most of the time where you can’t come and go as you please and your choice of job is severely dependent upon available child care.
Anecdotally, even the newly separated couples I know where the dad gets the kids 4 days a week, he STILL avoids doing things like plan b-day parties, school shopping, doctor’s appointments, and making sure the kids see their grandparents. That’s all mom’s job.
My spouse is in the military, so I live the life of the single mom for months at a time. It’s not easy and I can’t imagine trying to do it with no monetary support or grief for what little support I would get.
JT(Quote) (Reply)
I just like everything you say, lol.
Even with a nice guy, there’s still un unspoken expectation that he’s “taking care of you” so you better be accomadating. Wink wink. Even if HE doesn’t demand it, others will, like family and friends.
JT(Quote) (Reply)
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEE another feminist military spouse EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE you’re like a unicorn let’s be friends forever!
Maria(Quote) (Reply)
I just read a GREAT article on feminist co-parenting and the military by Pamela Aronson! <3 <3 <3
My enthusiasm! LET ME SHOW YOU IT.
Maria(Quote) (Reply)
LOL this seems like when I think about Dinosaurs. Or the vlogbrothers.
The Other Anne(Quote) (Reply)
I might be biased because of my work background, but if nearly 40% of my cases consist of single-mothers, who can’t get their exes to pay child support even when the court ordered them to, I don’t see how the scenario would work. (I got a little confused about alimony and child support, because here alimony for ex-spouses is nearly extinct for “normal” couples, sorry about that, but I’m extrapolating that it would be even worse when a woman would – theoretically – be able to take on a fulltime job, even if it is a low-pay sector. And if there are no children involved, good luck finding a judge who won’t tell exactly that.) Ironically, nearly another 40% of my cases are families with at least one spouse working full-time and not making enough money. Gosh, what were these women thinking, not holding out for a millionaire?
Elee(Quote) (Reply)
Yesyesyes!! You’re right, they are like unicorns! I have tried to be friends with a few, but they have largely not been interested in my geeky feminist self’s awkward attempts to be one of them. Come to think of it, same with the other moms at my son’s school. In my younger years, I used to say “I don’t get along with women!” because I was one of THOSE women. Now, I *want* to get along, but it is hard to find someone that 1)shares my values OR 2) doesn’t share my values but is okay with me having my own values and doesn’t mistake my unwillingness to martyr myself with ever-mounting and unappreciated duties to show I am the best mommy evar as being a slacker who hates my kid. Well, okay, I’m a little bit of a slacker…but there’s principle behind it, dammit!
I would LOVE to read another sweet feminist book! I eat ‘em up like candy.
Recently I finished up the Mommy Myth by Susan Douglas and Meredith Michaels.
Feel free to email me anytime at jt underscore petro at comcast dot net.
JT(Quote) (Reply)
I’m delurking to say that this one-artist-spouse/one-regular-job-spouse issue is a big issue for me, and it’s great to see someone mention it! My husband, who has a typical 9-to-5 job, says he’s willing to support me while I jumpstart an art career. I was born poor and went the academia/analyst route for survival purposes, managing to fight my way up to the upper middle class due to getting some rare and lucky chances to develop and use my skills. I always wanted to be an artist but was never really in a practical position to do so. But I’m also a feminist and a long-time reader of many feminist blogs, where the general theme usually seems to be that women MUST have regular paying jobs at any cost because they can’t depend on men/circumstances/life, and that it’s really personally irresponsible and like shooting yourself in the foot to do otherwise.
At the same time, though, I can see that I DO have potentially marketable art inside me and will always regret not letting it out in a dedicated way, and I’ve kept it up when I can for the decade since graduating from college. I just know from experience that it’s impossible to have any energy left over from that 40-hour-per-week-which-is-more-like-60-hours-but-has-health-insurance job to attempt anything more than the occasional exhausted doodling. And never mind kids, which I also want; I saw how women who had kids and could no longer work 60 hours per week got treated at my last job–like they had a disease that others felt like they shouldn’t have to accommodate, and they were ever-so-gently pushed out until they quit in frustration.
I have a fairly organized plan for my fantasy art career, and I’m definitely not going to sit around eating bonbons either. But I also know that it’ll be a while before I start making any money off it, and in the social stratum I now move in (upper-middle-class, educated, liberal, workaholic, development-and-defense-oriented professionals), I get the strong feeling that not having a job would cause me to be seen as a leech.
And I love and trust my husband, who is also a feminist, but I do fear the potential lack of security these favorite feminist blogs of mine describe, and having grown up without financial security or family to bail me out, the lack of security is a very real concept for me. I sort of feel like I don’t know whether it’s a totally good idea to advantage of this privilege, which could be illusory in my case, since I didn’t have it before and who knows, I might not again. But then again, art shouldn’t just be the pastime of the rich, and if I don’t do mine, then it doesn’t get made. So I’m going to do it anyway; I just feel conflicted, especially with all the judgment that surrounds women’s “choices” in contemporary American society.
Anka(Quote) (Reply)
For what it’s worth, I’m an artist-type too (would love to write fiction again someday before I die, kind of doubt I’ll ever get the chance), and I’d totally take a chance like you’ve been offered. I don’t consider it a feminist issue: I consider it an issue for people who have ambitions that don’t conform to the job market in their part of the world.
My one concern for anyone – and I’m going to use pronouns appropriate to your situation, but I’d caution a man in your position just the same way – is this: you must be very sure your partner is not a narcissist (the psych designation for most abusive personalities). This type can be lovely and charming until you become especially dependent, then the power monger abusive side comes out. It’s hard to recognize a narcissist UNTIL the ugly comes out, so it’s a catch-22. So maybe the best thing is to make sure you have an exit plan if suddenly the marriage comes to an end and you can no longer count on his support. If you can swing that – have some money put aside that he can’t access, keep up your working world contacts, etc. – then it’s about as safe as life gets (considering one could find oneself working for a narcissist who would be in a position to abuse one nearly as much as a partner, even making it difficult for one to simply leave and get work elsewhere).
If I sound paranoid, well… I learned this stuff in early childhood, and I learned it the hard way. But it is a legit concern for anyone. BUT: it is the ONLY concern. I don’t think it’s remotely anti-feminist, because you can be a fairly successful novelist and NEVER get to the point where you’re earning as much as you’d make as an administrative assistant, so I’m aware that a lot of known male novelists are only prolific because they’re supported by their working wives.
Jennifer Kesler(Quote) (Reply)
I am currently an unemployed comic artist! The unemployed part is kind of involuntary, though. Lard knows I’ve tried.
I too wrestle with the dilemma of me basically living the life of the stay at home mom while my husband is the one working. He’s in the military. Sometimes I feel like I am betraying my feminist ideals BUT, then I think about this:
I worked many an unsatisfying job to help put him through school so he could go through the officer program. I take care of everything while he fulfills his military obligations and I am damn good at it, too. So it isn’t too much to ask for him to support ME while I do arts. We support each other.
JT(Quote) (Reply)
This advice is very relevant and spot-on for me! I hit the jackpot with both parents–my father has malignant NPD (with a likely sprinkling of ASPD), and my (late) mother had high-functioning BPD/NPD (they often overlap, apparently). My husband is the first significant other I’ve ever had who truly ISN’T a Narcissist, and it took me about six years to really trust him, because I assumed on some level that all people turn into Narcissists once you care about and/or depend on them, and my early dating experiences with other people seemed to confirm that. With my husband, I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop and it never did. One of the many reasons why I like The Hathor Legacy so much is because of your writing about Narcissists, which I think the world can’t ever know too much about.
I also really appreciate the reality check that having private funds and maintaining my professional contacts (both of which I do, without really having thought about it) are legitmate parts of a potential backup plan if necessary, and that it’s not an all-or-nothing, be-completely-independent-or-else-totally-submit scenario.
It’s also great to be reminded that there are male artists who have working wives and aren’t getting flak for it, or at any rate not quite the same kind of flak, and that the situation of a female artist with a working husband shouldn’t be that different.
Anka(Quote) (Reply)
Oooh, ouch re: your parents. You and I totally have a thing or two in common.
I’ve finally gotten very good at recognizing narcissists (had this confirmed by psychologists, to make sure I wasn’t delusional), and all my errors in the past decade or so have been false positives. That’s the only reason I ever convinced myself to trust anyone. I think you’ll be well-prepared to (instinctively) take steps to protect yourself while still taking advantage of this great good fortune that’s become available to you. Congratulations!
PS – I relayed the gist of this to my mom, who reminded me a lot of working wives put their husbands through several degrees. Why are doctors not stigmatized for letting their wives put them through medical school? Why don’t people just decide none of this is any of their freakin’ business?
Jennifer Kesler(Quote) (Reply)
You know, I never thought I’d see a day where financial planning books for young couples would be more feminist than public perception — one of Suze Orman’s big points is that being mature about money in a couple involves thinking of your finances as a shared pot, not as one person supporting the other or whatever. You SHOULD support each other, and if there’s resentment or allegations of mooching? Think about breaking up.
Maria(Quote) (Reply)
Please reread this statement:
I could quit my job today and spend the rest of my life painting my nails and snoozing on the couch while my husband would exercise his male privilege to pay all of my bills, bear the financial responsibility for both of us, stress out about the competition in the workplace and the danger of being laid-off, and die several years earlier than I do.
The language of your statement is in the first person, and it suggests that you are incredibly well-to-do; That you have the option of quitting your job and letting your husband pay all the bills. It also suggests an ignorance about women in different situations. Women who don’t have the option of relying on a successful husband because, whether they are single, a lesbian, asexual, in a lower social standing, etc. they do not have one.
When you use this kind of language it is quite difficult not to fantasize about who the person at the keyboard is. You can quit your job and let your husband pay all the bills? Take a wild guess what most people picture. This is the internet, you are going to be judged on what you post, and not on your biographical information.
Leigh(Quote) (Reply)
This. Additionally, I don’t feel I “fantasized” at all – I merely took her words at face value, and inferred from her description that she’s unusually well-off because I know the two-income household is necessary for all but some upper-middle and the upper class these days.
Similarly, if she’d said, “I have to work two jobs just to buy a can of beans for my kids”, I’d have inferred that she’s on the less advantaged end of the economic stratum.
Jennifer Kesler(Quote) (Reply)
I’ve run in to some of this over my disability, but far less than you have by the sounds of it. But I’m sure my gender has nothing to do with that, right? /snark
Patrick McGraw(Quote) (Reply)
Anka – Please be aware that whatever path you choose, you will be judged and found wanting
. Many people wear vomit-colored glasses, and cannot see the good in anything that strays from the very narrow ‘one true path’.
Quit your good job to fool around with artsy fartsy stuff? what an idiot!
vs.
Blighted your very soul to keep running the rat maze of corporate slavery!
Although you’ll offend someone no matter what you do, remember that you’ll also please someone no matter what you do! Having a supportive husband is wonderful. Just make sure you recognize the ‘voices in your head’ that replay past conversations are in fact other people’s opinions, not gospel facts.
it took me forever to shut off some negative opinions /inside my own head/ even though i didn’t agree with their ideas
sylvia(Quote) (Reply)
This thread reminds me, I guy who works for my dad got drunk at my house and blabbed to me that my dad is always complaining to him behind my mom’s back about how she’s “just” a housewife and doesn’t have a “real” job. “SHE WANTS AND WANTS AND WANTS SO MUCH BUT SHE DOESN’T DO ANYTHING!” (the drunk guy’s quote)
Well
A.) All she WANTS is for the bills and rent to be payed
B.) She can’t get a job not only ‘cuz of that 9%+ unemployment rate but because SHE HAS A CRIMINAL RECORD YOU IGNORANT FUCK-HEAD
(it’s a really stupid record for pot possession, too)
Casey(Quote) (Reply)
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